It's not like it were in my day....

tomterm8

Could we chose to tomato both of them, plus all the conservative party leaders since 1997, since the conservatives are also to blame for this. They spent so long arguing about minor european matters, they completly dropped the ball about policies people care about. Result: a decade of substandard politics, and the mess we are in now.

kennyboy66_2

fedupfreda wrote: »

Just as a thought, Gen - Brown might have a good advantage, but its a dead cert he won't last long as leader - his own party are bound to mount a leadership challenge after the election, regardless of if they get in or not.... Brown has always struck me as meaning well, but appearing pretty clueless. IMO the real culprit is, and always has been, Blair.

If Labour lose, he surely will resign. If by some miracle they win, I would say next to no chance of a leadership challenge. All the 'Blairites' will be gone (some in disgrace - Hoon etc).

IveSeenTheLight

nutrisse wrote: »

dont make me submit an abuse report

Abuse Report Received [#754640]

For shouting too loud in an internet forum

tartanterra

nutrisse wrote: »

dont make me submit an abuse report

Why are all your posts "abuse reports"?

Are you some sort of self styled vigilante?

I don't really understand what you are trying to achieve.

robin_banks

tartanterra wrote: »

Why are all your posts "abuse reports"?

Are you some sort of self styled vigilante?

I don't really understand what you are trying to achieve.

Disruption, attention seeking, you name it.

Mr_Matey

Policy-wise I'm not a great fan of Brown, but he seems to be a decent guy. Cameron seems a bit obnoxious.

We had a similar situation in NSW a few years ago. A government who'd made a mess of things but they still got re-elected because the opposition didn't have a good leader.

I think it'll be a close one.

lemonjelly

Mr_Matey wrote: »

Policy-wise I'm not a great fan of Brown, but he seems to be a decent guy. Cameron seems a bit obnoxious.

We had a similar situation in NSW a few years ago. A government who'd made a mess of things but they still got re-elected because the opposition didn't have a good leader.

I think it'll be a close one.

Interesting analogy,

what was the outcome? Was continuation beneficial or not?

tartanterra

Mr_Matey wrote: »

Policy-wise I'm not a great fan of Brown, but he seems to be a decent guy. Cameron seems a bit obnoxious.

We had a similar situation in NSW a few years ago. A government who'd made a mess of things but they still got re-elected because the opposition didn't have a good leader.

I think it'll be a close one.

I think you are probably right.

The General Election is going to be decided on who the voters think is "the best of a bad bunch".

No wonder people can't even be bothered to cast their vote.:(

Mr_Matey

lemonjelly wrote: »

Interesting analogy,

what was the outcome? Was continuation beneficial or not?

Well, they're in power now. I'm not living there now, but from what I've read and heard, no they're still making bad decisions. That's not to say the opposition would've been any better.

torontoboy45

Generali wrote: »

Just a thought.....

I can recall 3 Prime Ministers being defeated and so effectively being forced out of power either by losing a election or by being so incredibly unpopular that their own party commits 'regicide'*.

Callaghan: presided over the Winter of Discontent, his Chancellor had to go to the IMF while Wilson was PM, unions ran the country. Weak and incompetant.

Thatcher: Probably always hated by the majority of voters. Broken by the Poll Tax.

Major: Could do nothing right despite seeming to me to be a decent man (Currie-gate not withstanding). Was mocked by the newspapers and TV at every turn. Despised as weak and petit bourgois (frozen cheese etc).

Now Brown. Is he really despised in the same way? I mean truly hated by the populace. I don't think he is, or that's what I see from a distance. Qualitatively I don't think there is the same depth of feeling against Brown as there was against the other three and as a result I think Brown has a good chance of victory given the advantage an incumbent has and the electoral (current) bias in favour of Labour.

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of those closer to the action.










*I know it's not really regicide but it's a great word

not closer to the action gen, but I keep an interest in a non-nerdy sort of way.

all pm careers end in failure and to a large extent the nemesis comes in the form of party disunity, followed by voter fatigue and finally a single issue that forms a rallying point to the disaffected.

callaghan: struggled with the left faction and the TU cashpoints but (if the opinion polls are to be believed) the electorate hadn't quite given up on him. dithering, then standing back from a GE call in oct '78 cost him big-time the following may, once the brotherhood got to work over the winter.

disliked but not despised.

thatcher: attracted intense neg. feelings but the electorate voted her in 3 times nonetheless. europe caused the major party division. voters had finally had enough of her strident, shrieky hectoring. the poll tax was the place to be for a rally. (the word 'regicide' will do and something the tories are particularly adept at).

intensely disliked but mostly not despised.

major: had the misfortune of steering a party at war with itself over europe, thatcher's undermining comments (it has been suggested that she delib. attempted to sabotage the party after The Great Betrayal) and a working majority of just 21. ERM debacle did him no favours. the 'back to basics' initiative was a disaster when most of the party seemed to be sleeping with each other.

despised but a victim of circs (events,dear boy,events. and all that).

blair: presided over (and encouraged) a nation as it went on a binge fest.
iraq. bought into mandy's spin and turned it into an art form. arguably the biggest political trickster since lloyd george.

hugely despised but robbed the electorate of a chance to deliver judgement.

and finally brown: another inheritor. party mostly united. following blair with the spin thing. seems to have convinced the voters that the economy isn't all his fault (global mess,etc). no single issue to get his detractors juiced up enough to mve in for the kill. voters tired of labour but not embracing dave and co.

despised but perhaps not much more than many 21st politico's.

this will be how history judges these four.

errr.....

I think.