I'm planning opening a pasty shop - what are the profit expectations?

Davesnave

Presentation is everything in our business. When we sell, we rarely have things to ourselves, and at a plant fair there can be 25 of us. All our stock is grouped, with labels explaining the grouping and everything is described & priced very clearly, with an incentive to multi-purchase. I do the pictures for plants that need them, spending hours on that, but I only tweak in Photoshop a tiny bit!

DW, who does all the arty set-up, giggles at men who lay out their stalls with everything in military straight lines, or those who do loads of the same thing. This creates nothing for the customer to do, as there are few surprises. Stalls like that sell to the less knowledgeable, though, because complex can mean scary. However, to the plantaholic, a stall like ours is like going on an expedition, so they take their time, working their way through from one end to the other. It's horses for courses and you can't be all things to all men/women.

The final crunch is always price. We used to have strange prices like £4.80, but a few years ago I decided to go for straightforward pound & 50p multiples, to help people add them up mentally. Multi-buys and being cheaper than others is now the order of the day.

At larger venues, where we can compare, we seem to 'catch' a good proportion of the people who are buying, so I feel we are offer value and stand out from the crowd. DW has a friendly manner and a lovely face too, which is a clincher, especially with men. Luckily, most men who are 'into' plants are either elderly, or a bit nerdy....

Hang on, what does that say about me, then?:o

mizzbiz

I used to work for Greggs and I can tell you it's a good business to be in.

Every ingredient was costed down to the penny - they knew exactly how much each and every pasty cost to produce, and they knew exactly (within maybe 5 pasties) how many would be bought in each shop, each day, due to extensive statistical monitoring.

Sandwiches - sandwiches had to be produced in exactly the same way - for ham salad square stotties (as you used to get when I worked there) you would prepare 12 at a time. Each got one scrape of marge on one side, one scrape of mayo on the other, one slice of cucumber at two corners, one slice of egg at the other two, a small handful of shredded lettuce, two slices of tomoto to fill the gaps then four slices of ham (the cheap stuff), twirled to add volume, one in each corner - but they met in the middle.

Greggs run their business as a science. If you can manage to do it this way, you will make lots of money.

In contrast I worked at a different bakers when I was very youg and they went bust, despite being very popular and having lots of customers and delicious food. Why?

They baked the same amount of stuff each day, no matter what, which often meant either wastage or running out so customers went without. Where stuff was left over, it was sold the next day at half price, so we had many customers coming in and only buying the half price stuff from yesterday whilst the lovely, beautiful cakes and bread were left to rot to be sold at half price the next day.

They had the most amazing cakes ever, honestly, bursting with fresh cream and far too cheap - you would have paid four times the price they were asking elsewhere, yet they didn't even have the nouse to stick a poster in the window to advertise, nor the goods. I tried to make lots of changes, but the owners had inherited the business and really didn't have a clue.

A tale of two cities for you to mull over.

Conrad

Alan_M wrote: »

The thing with starting any business from scratch, especially if you've not run a business before, is you're often clueless about real costs.

Work it backwards.

That's what I will do.
To give an idea what I'm like:

I designed my own budget planner for retail mortgage clients and you should see the squiming when I sak, how much they are allowing for;

Birthday, Xmas, aniversaries, births etc - to include the costs of wrapping paper, cards, ribbons etc. May sound anal but this is a key cost most people to not fully allow for - they only allow for presents and forrget all the add ons and all those other events like a freinds 50th etc

Halloween, valantines day, childrens freinds presents - these costs are omnipresent for many, but again few factor these in

Shoe polish

Lawn mower serviced

Replacing and other purchasing -
drinking glasses
forks
cups
the indoor plant sprayer (I find they dont last)
pots for plants
indoor plant food
cloths
brushes
brillo pads
fuses
bulbs
pens
paper
bike punchure repair kit
new footballs
paddling pool (loads of people replace each year)
weedkiller
fly spray
SUN TAN LOTION - COSTS FORTUNES
Car cleaning products
Lawn feed
Compost
Christmas crackers, biscuits, ice cream
Days out - often people tell me thier holiday costs, but forget those days and weekends away
Tin foil
Rubbish sacks
Hair & beauty
Hobbies - another one people leave out
Magazines / newspapers
Vitamins
Medicine
Pills
Plasters
Tcp
Anusol - onlu kidding
Parking - another one I find people totaly forget
Luches - again many people forget this one
Buying snacks / gum / coffee when getting petrol
Pets
DVD hire
Swimming lessons

I could go on ('no please don't')

Conrad

mizzbiz wrote: »

I used to work for Greggs and I can tell you it's a good business to be in.

Every ingredient was costed down to the penny - they knew exactly how much each and every pasty cost to produce, and they knew exactly (within maybe 5 pasties) how many would be bought in each shop, each day, due to extensive statistical monitoring.

Sandwiches - sandwiches had to be produced in exactly the same way - for ham salad square stotties (as you used to get when I worked there) you would prepare 12 at a time. Each got one scrape of marge on one side, one scrape of mayo on the other, one slice of cucumber at two corners, one slice of egg at the other two, a small handful of shredded lettuce, two slices of tomoto to fill the gaps then four slices of ham (the cheap stuff), twirled to add volume, one in each corner - but they met in the middle.

Greggs run their business as a science. If you can manage to do it this way, you will make lots of money.

In contrast I worked at a different bakers when I was very youg and they went bust, despite being very popular and having lots of customers and delicious food. Why?

They baked the same amount of stuff each day, no matter what, which often meant either wastage or running out so customers went without. Where stuff was left over, it was sold the next day at half price, so we had many customers coming in and only buying the half price stuff from yesterday whilst the lovely, beautiful cakes and bread were left to rot to be sold at half price the next day.

They had the most amazing cakes ever, honestly, bursting with fresh cream and far too cheap - you would have paid four times the price they were asking elsewhere, yet they didn't even have the nouse to stick a poster in the window to advertise, nor the goods. I tried to make lots of changes, but the owners had inherited the business and really didn't have a clue.

A tale of two cities for you to mull over.

Thank's, very informative.

For me it's always down to the same thing; attention to detail in those minute to minute decisions. As you say Greggs have locked everything down to minuciea (sp)

I would say most restaurants and pubs get it wrong for example, because yet again the attention to detail just is'nt there. The owners forget seemingly small details like the smell of over used oil - so many pubs have that putrid smell, and such inputs act at the subconscious level on would be customers.

Dave101t

why not simply open a greggs franchise? they have been there, done that afterall?

mizzbiz

Dave101t wrote: »

why not simply open a greggs franchise? they have been there, done that afterall?

They don't do frnachise - there's too much at stake as, as I pointed out above, it's a very refined business process which makes them squillions. The worst thing they could do is open it up to franchise and end up grotty and varying in quality, like subway for example.

Dave101t

fine just thought id ask, every subway ive been in has been clean and nice, tho horribly expensive.

fc123

Interesting Mizzbizz....the baker that went down sounded a bit, in parts, like the foodie shop that I knew that shut..it was great but his sums didn't add up.


In the end, the best experience is to go work part time at the counter in one of these places to get an idea of T/O and how they operate....or advertise for an ex employee to spill the beans for a cash sum?
Don't know how you would word the ad though..maybe not.

Marketing and sales to get new customers ......they are our weakest points as we are so busy doing the doing.

PasturesNew

How strange I find the lives of others. Here are my replies

Conrad wrote: »

Birthday, Xmas, aniversaries, births etc - to include the costs of wrapping paper, cards, ribbons etc. May sound anal but this is a key cost most people to not fully allow for - they only allow for presents and forrget all the add ons and all those other events like a freinds 50th etc

£250/year

Conrad wrote: »

Halloween, valantines day, childrens freinds presents - these costs are omnipresent for many, but again few factor these in

£10 max, most years £0

Conrad wrote: »

Shoe polish, Lawn mower serviced,
Replacing and other purchasing -
drinking glasses, forks, cups, the indoor plant sprayer (I find they dont last), pots for plants, indoor plant food

Total £2/year

Conrad wrote: »

cloths, brushes, brillo pads, fuses, bulbs, pens, paper, bike punchure repair kit, new footballs, paddling pool (loads of people replace each year), weedkiller, fly spray, SUN TAN LOTION - COSTS FORTUNES, Car cleaning products, Lawn feed, Compost

There blows another £2/year

Conrad wrote: »

Christmas crackers, biscuits, ice cream
Days out - often people tell me thier holiday costs, but forget those days and weekends away, Tin foil, Rubbish sacks

£20/year max.

Conrad wrote: »

Hair & beauty
Hobbies - another one people leave out

OK you got me there, I do have my hair trimmed and coloured, so put me down for £100/year there.

Conrad wrote: »

Magazines / newspapers, Vitamins, Medicine, Pills, Plasters, Tcp, Anusol - onlu kidding

£1/year max ... don't even know what that last one is but it sounds rude

Conrad wrote: »

Parking - another one I find people totaly forget
Luches - again many people forget this one
Buying snacks / gum / coffee when getting petrol

£25/year

Conrad wrote: »

Pets, DVD hire, Swimming lessons

£0.


Maybe you live in a strange world of anusol, small children and disposable paddling pools.

dopester

Conrad wrote: »

That's what I will do.
To give an idea what I'm like:

It is commendable Conrad that you highlight to your clients the issues of overall affordability.

I'd like to think most people would consider it themselves, but all too many in the boom years were minded that they could stretch themselves totally on a house purchase / mortgage, then let positive HPI float them to riches.

Still, that list is a bit specific isn't it, and it could just run and run. If a mortgage advisor put something like that infront of me I'd be a bit worried.

If you insist on doing it, keeping in mind you still want people to buy via you, maybe it would be better split into categories, like household wares, holidays leisure and activities, cars and travel, insurances, ect.

Had any more thoughts about proceeding with the pasty venture?