Store Manager refusing sick pay 'at his discretion' Please help?

Kzlnd

I was hoping someone could give me advice on this, I know loads of you on here are extremely helpful! So I'd appreciate any comments

The store manager at a certain major electrical retailer (Not sure if I can name, if I can I will) has decided not to pay sick pay for 4 days missed work.. at his discretion.

There is no reason to suspect misconduct, time off was due to sickness and this alone. The manager was contacted each morning of absence, in line with company policy. On the third day the manager hung up the phone after saying sick pay wouldn't be paid because it was at his discretion.. hence this post!

I've read over the company handbook and no where does it state sick pay is given at the store manager’s discretion, and it's nothing to do with 'not qualifying' for company sick pay etc.

The personnel contact numbers no longer work, think the handbook is a good few years old and I cannot seem to find a direct contact number on the company website. This would be useful to discuss the problem with them.
Sooo I was wondering if anyone could advise me on this, is it at his discretion?

Thanks in advance

CIS

Even if they dont pay any company sick pay. SSP is legally payable starting on the 4th day of ilness, theres no way the company can legally not pay it.

hjb123

I wouldnt have thought that he can do this 'at his discretion'! I would ring any number associated with your company even if it is the customer services for the online section - I am guessing its currys or comet?

jobbingmusician

I think you should ask him to tell you where in your contract it says that sick pay is at his discretion. Make it clear to him that you expect the company to keep to your contract of employment!!!!

How long have you been working at this company? If it's more than a year, I think you have the option of resigning and claiming constructive dismissal - which is likely to prove EXTREMELY expensive for the company! Do you belong to a union or anything who could give you advice?

Good luck - keep us informed!

Kzlnd

Thank you for your replies so far
I don't work there, my boyfriend does and has done so for 4+ years(ish) Not always, but full time for the most part. (My brother used to work in the same store and couldn't bare to work there a moment longer and quit, along with others.)

Yes hjb, Currys.

My boyf is obviously annoyed, not so much because of the lost 'earnings' but the way in which his manager is behaving, this is typical of the managers at his store.

I've checked the employee handbook, 'at the managers discretion' is simply not stated or implied! My first comment when my boyf told me what had been screamed at him over the telephone(!), was that the manager was lying and this was not at his discretion at all.

I'm concerned that my boyf will say things he may regret when he goes back to work tomorrow and is 'called in'.
I understand it will be a little hard for him to stay calm, the managers treat them appallingly (sp?) and are constantly giving them grief. I've seen this happen in front of customers, when they belittle and embarrass them, it's terrible to hear/watch.

I'm wondering if there is anything specific he should throw back at his manager regarding this discretion crap, which I am certain it is, just him thinking he can stamp what little authority he actually has upon everyone 'under him'. :rolleyes:

hjb123

I would get a doctors note if possible. I was in a similar situation with my former employers (WHS) almost 18 months since now - although they never said they wouldnt pay me - the manager was unsympathetic and did put the phone down on me once!

stressedoutmum

Manager's can withold pay at 'Store Manager's Discretion' for various reasons:

1. If they have reason to assume the illness was not genuine ie someone saw you shopping or at the pub!
2. The employee has not followed company sickness procedures (ie phoning each day, speaking to manager, completing sickness/absence form on return).
3. If you have simply run out of your sick pay entitlement as you have used it all up within your 'sick year' ie ours runs from 1 Apr - 31 Mar following year.
4. If you are already under disciplinary procedures for absence or if your absence level is above the company average and you have been previously notified than any future sickness may be unpaid because of this.

However before doing this managers should contact their human resources department to inform them that they won't be paying an employee sick pay and the reason why. You cannot just say store manager's discretion - there must be a reason as under your T&Cs you are entitled to company sick pay if you qualify for it and provided you are none of the above. Saying you are not going to be paid is more or less calling you a liar or saying your illness is not genuine. A doctor will not issue a sick note as you can self certify for the first 7 days. A lot of employers are trying this 'bully boy tactic' to reduce their absence figures and save the company sick pay as it costs large companies such as your BFs thousands each year.SSP is payble from day 4 which means the first 3 days are not payable. However manager's are strongly discouraged from not paying absence and encouraged to contact Head Office or Human Resources departments before making any final decision.

I have been advised by managers in the past not to pay sick pay because their budgets are so tight but I have challenged them on this if I thought they were in the wrong. I have told them that should it go to a Tribunal they would be in the wrong and Head Office would not support any manager who had done this as they should have contacted their Human Resources department first who check where the Company stand legally and as I know they are wrong then I am not prepard to do it.

If you do not pay an employee for their sickness then you must give them a reason why 'store manager's discretion' is not the answer as this is a generic term that applies to the 4 above I listed. Most companies have a 'business principles' policy for staff which means you will not be put under stress, bullying or harassment in the workplace. If he doesnt accept this see if your company has a 'whistleblowing' policy which is usually a confidential helpline where you can report instances like this if you are being treated unfairly.

I would tend not to hand my notice in and then apply for constructive dismissal because if this is the only instance it would be very hard to support this case if you have not followed all the above first. Also all these things are based on hard evidence. Sorry its long but policies are! HTH

jan59

stressedoutmum wrote:

You cannot just say store manager's discretion - there must be a reason as under your T&Cs you are entitled to company sick pay if you qualify for it and provided you are none of the above.

Stressedout - can you clarify what you have written above? Unless you are directly quoting this company's (did I see it mentioned as Currys?) Ts&Cs, then 'fraid this is not a correct statement. There is no statutory (i.e. legal) right to Company sick pay, only SSP. However, this is normally an 'express term' i.e. written into a contract or company handbook. This should say whether Company sick pay is discretionary or not. I don't have access to Curry's Ts and C's, so can't say for definite whether Company Sick Pay is discretionary or not. Best people to contact are HR/Personnel, who would be able to advise both manager and employee.

stressedoutmum

Hiya. I worked at Dixons a couple of years ago and this was the policy. I have also worked in 3 other retailers and all the large retailers work on a very similar basis. I find it unlikely that Currys doesn't pay sick pay for such a large company which is why I quoted the above based on the knowledge I had. When he says store manager's discretion this would seem to indicate they do pay it otherwise everyone would be aware that its not paid so there would be no needs to clarify at store manager's discretion. . I know some company's dont pay sick pay. My brother works in a garage and doesnt get it. So the above would not apply to everyone and is not meant for everyone. HTH

Kzlnd

Thank you for your helpful comments stressedoutmum.

The four points you mention are not applicable..
My boyfriend hasn't left home throughout the period he has been sick and off work, nor has he had friends over etc.
He has called the store and spoke with the manager each morning, before store opening hours.
He hasn't had many days off due to illness or otherwise so will be under the allowed sick pay entitlement. (Think this runs Apr 6-Apr 5)
He isn't on disciplinary procedures for absence and hasn't been informed of future non payment for sickness.

The manager ordered my boyf to go straight to the hospital on the first day of my boyf calling him to let him know he wouldn't be able to work!!?? As he does with everyone, even if going to hospital is really not required. :rolleyes:
On the third day my boyf called, the manager said he would not allow sick pay to which my boyf replied, 'I will speak to personnel regarding that'. The manager said he wouldn't allow sick pay and that it was at his discretion.. then hung up the telephone.

I understand the tight budgets point, I know they are looking to cut staff numbers due to wage payments being too high (this from another (trainee) manager) and his snap comment may be because of this issue but, it's not my boyfriends problem.. Just because they messed up with staffing levels and expenses are too high, should not mean my boyf is 'punished'.

Most companies have a 'business principles' policy for staff which means you will not be put under stress, bullying or harassment in the workplace.
The above policy does not exist in this particular store.. This is exactly what the managers inflict on staff, of course I only know what my brother and boyf have told me but other staff working there have also commented and agreed.
My brother is undecided whether or not to write to head office with his comments of how the managers treated staff during his time working there, not to mention other activities, he thinks it's highly likely at least one of the managers would be fired.

Handing in his notice isn't something he really wants to do - not at the moment because of money issues.. although for a short while we could be ok with just my salary until he got another job. However, depending on what is said and discussed tomorrow, it may happen.. Hopefully not!

CIS

Make sure that he get his SSP, regardless of whether they pay the company sick pay, sounds like they'll try and get out of that as well.