House prices going into 2010 - Is shelter really affordable?

tommy75

SNAPSHOT OF UK SALARIES Job title Salary

Accountants (chartered and certified) £37,320
Agricultural machinery drivers £19,769
Air traffic controllers £51,911
Air travel assistants £21, 367
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers £63,664
Architects £38,559
Art officers producers and directors £29,502
Authors and writers £22,703
Bakers and flour confectioners £15,362
Biological scientists and biochemists £34,378
Bricklayers and masons £22,868
Broadcasting associate professionals £42,800
Brokers £94,293
Building and civil engineering technicians £26,591
Building inspectors £26,774
Bus and coach drivers £20,067
Business and related associates £26,568
Butchers and meat cutters £17,020
Buyers and purchasing officers £29,579
Call centre agents £13,989
Careers advisors £23,007
Car electricians £24,886
Caretakers £15,373
Carpenters and joiners £22,844
Chefs and cooks £13,720
Chemical and related process operatives £26,238
Civil service administrative officers £15,217
Civil service executive officers £21,830
Clergy £20,377
Coal miners £36,433
Collector salespersons and credit agents £16,494
Communication operators £22,383
Company secretaries £16,465
Compositors and print preparers £23,718
Construction operatives £26,313
Construction trades £24,662
Counter clerks £16,156
Countryside and park rangers £20,445
Crane drivers £28,967
Credit Controllers £18,794
Customer care occupations £13,355
Dancers and choreographers £36,294
Database clerks £14,912
Debt, rent and other cash collectors £14,944
Dentists £31,747
Designers (product and clothing) £29,028
Directors and chief executives £212,910
Dockers, stevedores and slingers £22,363
Draughtsman £26,774
Driving instructors £24,705
Education officers and school inspectors £34,376
Electrical/electronics technicians £27,983
Electricians and electrical fitters £26,860
Energy plant operatives £34,153
Engineering professionals £35,586
Engineering technicians £29,488
Engineers (computer) £27,544
Engineers (design and development) £36,080
Engineers (electrical) £37,916
Engineers (mechanical) £36,982
Engineers (planning and quality control) £30,915
Engineers (production and process) £33,243
Engineers (telecommunications) £26,084
Engineers (TV, video and audio) £22,027
Environmental health officers £27,647
Environment protection officers £26,029
Estate agents and auctioneers £27,872
Estimators, valuers and assessors £28,046
Farmers £18,172
Farm managers £28,109
Farm workers £15,602
Filing clerks £16,192
Finance and investment analysts £46,718
Financial and accountant technicians £44,204
Financial managers and chartered secretaries £77,931
Fire, ambulance and prison officers (senior) £43,810
Firefighters £25,863
Floorers and wall tilers £21,830
Food, drink and tobacco processors £17,512
Forestry workers £18,442
Fork-life truck drivers £18,934
Furniture makers and craft woodworkers £18,746
Garage managers and proprietors £31,587
Gardeners and groundsmen £16,439
Glass and ceramics makers and decorators £19,622
Glass and ceramics process operatives £20,396
Glaziers, window fabricators and fitters £19,328
Goldsmiths, silversmiths, gem workers £21,562
Goods handling and storage £16,450
Graphic designers £22,643
Hand craft occupations £17,669
Housing and welfare officers £20,068
Importers, exporters £20,952
Industrial Cleaning process occupations £16,612
Insurance underwriters £34,577
IT operations technicians £29,954
IT strategy and planning professionals £48,787
IT user support technicians £25,917
Journalists £31,256
Laboratory technicians £21,239
Labourers in building and woodworking £18,559
Labourers in foundries £19,012
Labourers in other construction trades £18,399
Labourers in process and plant operations £17,004
Lawyers, judges and coroners £52,049
Leather and related trades £18,530
Legal associate professionals £28,001
Legal professionals £50,649
Legal secretaries £17,089
Local government officers (senior) £44,755
Lorry Drivers £22,809
Leisure and travel service occupations £15,284
Librarians £20,967
Library assistants £10,749
Lines repairers and cable joiners £31,902
Local government clerical officers £17,737
Management accountants £37,868
Management counsultants and economists £47,517
Mangers and owners in other areas £39,930
Managers (advertising and PR) £48,258
Managers (construction) £43,744
Managers (customer care) £36,805
Managers (environment and conservation) £35,152
Managers (healthcare practice) £25,729
Managers (hospital and health service) £38,372
Managers (hotel and accomodation) £27,468
Managers (leisure and sports) £27,017
Managers (marketing and sales) £54,029
Managers (mining and energy) £58,802
Managers (pharmacy) £38,714
Managers (production and works) £43,569
Managers (property, housing and land) £40,678
Managers (purchasing managers) £49,148
Managers (quality assurance) £37,228
Managers (recycling and refuse disposal) £32,597
Managers (research and development) £54,950
Managers (residential and day care) £26,302
Managers (restaurant and catering) £21,229
Managers (retail and wholesale) £26,378
Managers (security) £33,668
Managers (storage and warehouse) £28,484
Managers (travel) £24,604
Managers (transport and distribution) £37,533
Marketing associate professionals £26,096
Mechanics £22,543
Metal working machine operatives £21,613
Midwives £25,586
Mobile machine drivers and operatives £20,444
Moulders, core makers, die casters £24,094
Non-governmental organisation officers £18,727
Nurses £23,044
Occupational therapists £23,778
Office clerks £16,192
Office managers £32,300
Officials of special interest organisations £37,624
Opticians (dispensing) £21,512
Opticians (opthalmic) £33,094
Painters and decorators £20,887
Paper and wood machine operatives £21,469
Paramedics £21,720
Pattern makers (moulds) £27,618
Pensions and insurance clerks £19,555
Personnel and industrial relations managers £49,717
Pest control officers £19,058
Pharmaceutical dispensers £13,990
Pharmacists and pharmacologists £30,839
Photographers and projectionists £23,967
Physicists, geologists and meteorologists £43,009
Physiotherapists £23,153
Plant and machine operatives £20,710
Plasterers £21,545
Plastics process operatives £19,243
Plumbers £25,485
Police officers (inspector and above) £54,241
Police officers (sergeant and below) £36,021
Postal workers, messengers, couriers £19,486
Precision instrument makers £24,735
Printers £25,813
Printing machine minders and assistants £22,576
Prison service officers £23,324
Probation officers £24,522
Process operatives £20,208
Protective service associates £25,163
Psychologists £34,637
Publicans £18,399
Public relations officers £26,948
Public service administrators £26,016
Public service associate professionals £31,525
Quality assurance technicians £22,873
Quarry workers and related operatives £24,228
Rail construction and maintenance £29,383
Rail transport operatives £30,246
Rail travel assistants £23,044
Refuse and salvage occupations £17,606
Registrars of educational establishments £33,575
Researchers £27,953
Residential wardens £15,693
Road construction operatives £22,558
Road sweepers £17,792
Roofers and slaters £20,268
Roundsmen and van salespersons £18,900
Routine inspectors and testers £20,379
Routine laboratory testers £16,114
Rubber process operatives £22,994
Sales related occupations £17,860
Sales representatives £29,470
Scaffolders, tagers, riggers £28,773
School secretaries £12,850
Science and engineering technicians £24,946
Scientific researchers £35,076
Screen printers £17,302
Seafarers and boatmen £27,721
Secretaries £15,018
Security guards and related occupations £18,228
Security occupations (elementary) £10,779
Sheet metal workers £21,219
Ship and hovercraft officers £26,869
Smiths and forge workers £21,598
Social science researchers £22,050
Social services managers £32,622
Social workers £26,306
Software professionals £36,651
Speech and language therapists £24,945
Sports and fitness occupations £12,204
Statutory examiners £26,466
Steel erectors £26,205
Stock control clerks £17,364
Surveyors (chartered) £42,487
Surveyors (quantity) £35,518
Taxation experts £28,519
Taxi drivers and chauffers £13,921
Teachers £29,300
Teachers (further education) £24,906
Teachers (primary and nursery) £27,990
Teachers (secondary school) £31,340
Teachers (special needs education) £30,337
Teaching professionals (higher education) £33,898
Telephone salespersons £16,030
Telephonists £14,171
Textile process operatives £17,078
Textiles, garments and related trades £19,861
Therapists £23,483
Tool makers, fitters and markers-out £24,768
Town planners £39,108
Trading standards and plant inspectors £27,125
Traffic wardens £20,526
Train drivers £37,231
Trainers (vocational and industrial) £22,242
Transport and distribution clerks £21,296
Transport operatives £20,870
Travel agents £14,712
Typists £13,759
Tyre, exhaust and windscreen fitters £17,270
Undertakers and mortuary assistants £16,219
Upholsterers £17,681
Van drivers £16,776
Vehicle body builders and repairers £22,236
Vehicle spray painters £22,103
Veterinarians £30,724
Wages clerks £17,885
Water and sewerage plant operatives £25,443
Weavers and knitters £16,389
Weighers, graders, sorters £17,886
Welding trades £23,178
Window cleaners £14,399
Workplace hygeinists and safety officers £30,456
Youth and community workers £16,716


http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=429176&in_page_id=2

Somebody want to do a pie chart/graph of what propertys each of these workers could afford in each area of the UK?

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Average wage goes up by 3.4%, but cost of living shoots up by 9%
10 March 2008

http://www.easier.com/view/Finance/Household_Bills/Spending_Habits/article-166979.html

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Have a look on the jobcenter website and tell me what these few jobs generally pay (Manchester searched):

http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/listjob.aspx?sessionid=2945c7e6-eae6-4e94-9ebb-8a4a17412685&sid=118843385&p=1&so=1

Then tell me what the bank would lend me these days and at what interest rate with 5% deposit which in 2005/6/7 would of got me something around 4%

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Overview from the year 1987:

The average weekly wage is £231.21 (Annual wage £12,023)
The average UK house costs £40,391

http://www.potatoacademy.com/overview.asp?theyear=1987

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Dorset Feb 2003:

The county's average gross weekly wage is £397.40, which equates to around £20,665 a year against the national average of £24,164.

I'd say that was just about the same as today wouldn't you? What was the average home price in Feb 2003?

2002, some of 2003 and the start of 2004 is where prices went silly. Somebody who simply didn't own a property in these years would have to fork out around 40 grand more for a home in 2004.

(Nationwide)
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indices-nationwide-national.php

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A random website I found (Digital Spy forum) discussing average wage. Have a look at people chatting about wages with no vested interest and tell me what you think:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=847792

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In my opinion, I think there is nothing holding prices up at todays averages other than the spin from EA's and Newspapers/TV with VI but I know that if house prices overshoot this time on the way down (the norm) then the UK will be in a dire situation. This time it will be avoided at all costs hence why I'm not in the 70% club though I can see another 8-10% of by the end of 2009/start of 2010.

ruggedtoast

Transactional levels are so low at the moment its difficult to make any assumptions about house prices. On the face of recent data, cash buyers, and those able to obtain mortgages, are willing to pay prices not far off the peak.

Whether this will underpin the market is, in my opinion, a bit unlikely. However we have a society and government firmly committed to establishing a sort of quasi property owning aristocracy. There is a huge amount of government money being poured into keeping property values high, and not very much concern for people in their 20s and 30s on an "average" wage.

ukmike

Dentists £31,747

Far too low,more like double that!

Spiv_2

ukmike wrote: »

Far too low,more like double that!

Ditto for Accountants more like 4 times that;)

tommy75

ukmike wrote: »

Far too low,more like double that!

Sorry, im just going off statistics by the government. Maybe you can earn over 60k a year with overtime, though please tell me how you came to your figure.

Feel free to discuss each

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section

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btw

ukmike

though please tell me how you came to your figure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/2910989/Average-NHS-dentist-earns-six-figure-salary.html

tommy75

ukmike wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/2910989/Average-NHS-dentist-earns-six-figure-salary.html

Firstly, if that were true that the average dentist came out with over 100k gross pa then there is alot of dodgy goings on for the official figures to be around 30k?

From reading comments, 100k is not take home pay and their practice fees have to be paid for. Any dentists on MSE?

Is this just regarding NHS dentists or private too as I can see a private dentist who owns his/her practice earning alot of money. The article seems a little missleading imo but we are going to have a really long thread if we are discussing each and every job on the government statistics.:p

BitterAndTwisted

Spiv wrote: »

Ditto for Accountants more like 4 times that;)

I wish! I'm earning about a third less than I did five years ago

PasturesNew

If anybody doubts that salaries for "normal people" are low, go to reed and do a search locally, stripping out jobs with a degree and jobs requiring specialist training ... see how the wages of the great masses have pretty much sat still - minimum wage increases each year, but jobs in the layer above that have sat still as NMW approaches them.

PasturesNew

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

I wish! I'm earning about a third less than I did five years ago

I've experienced that too. I did one "test" - I was employed in a role in 1997 at £17,500, I went to their website and looked to see if they had jobs performing that role - and they did ... at £17,500 12 years on.

If I were to apply for Office Manager jobs today, the salaries would be £14-16k, that is what I got for that level of job 15 years ago.

If I look at project manager jobs today, most permanent jobs are quoting the same salaries that they were in 1999, but now they want a degree (a study showed 4-5 years ago that the average project manager was over 30 and had no degree).

Many, many salaries have not moved, except downwards.

In 1990 I was temping as an Admin Assistant - £6.60/hour. 2007 I went to see some temping agencies for Secretarial work - quoted £6/hour tops.

pizzagirl

When you compare these salaries to the average house price it's obvious that house prices are a house of cards just waiting to collapse. There may be a temporary lull while the government interferes but the only way in downwards in the medium term.