Cabot and CCA's

d0nnyoz

Hi

I posted a message recently about Cabot Financial who since taking over my Citi Cards debt have racked up some interest on the account. After I questioned them on why the amount had risen, they said they were entitled to charge interest after taking ownership of the debt.
First question: Do they have the right to do that?
I mean, they didn't even tell me this was happening. Is there anything I can do about this?

Secondly, I decided to try the CCA route with them.
I have just received a letter back from them stating that "Cabot Financial is not obliged to provide this information but we are pleased to help and have already requested the documentation for you from the original lender."
They also sent my £1 fee back stating they do not accept the fee, which is nice of them!
So, where do I stand here in terms of enforcing anything regarding the CCA request? It seems to me like they're saying "you can't get us with this one mate" as we don't subscribe and in sending back the £1 fee they are saying because they didn't take any money, they're not legally bind. Is that right??

Also, regarding the 12 days timeframe, is this 12 working days? Over the Christmas and New Year holiday period, the 12 days can turn into a long time. I sent the letter on 29th December and their reply is dated 30th December.

determinedtodothis

Didn't want to read and run..

Not sure on that the fact they have requested it means they haven't got it - so at the moment its not enforceable - the only thing that would concern me is that they returned the £1 i'd be tempted to write back (recorded) and say thank them for the letter and that you understand they have contacted the original lender, that as they don't have a CCA you expect them not to pursue you until its provided and mention in there that they returned the £1 in case they claim you never sent it.

As for the 12 days - i've done it on working days

pepe2008

they own the debt, they own the risk!!!!

the Agreement may be filed with the OC ( Citi ) or archived down a tinmine or somewhere...........but CABOT have the responsibility of providing it.

If they dont, for whatever reason, then its not enforceable by ANYONE!!!

d0nnyoz

Thanks for the response, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Do you mean that this is Cabot's responsibility and nothing to do with Citi?
I think I agree with that but they could still provide the agreement in any which way they choose. If they get the agreement from Citi and then forward it to me, is it still legal?

Absolut_Wench

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one puzzled by such behaviour. I am dealing with a sudden demand for payment from Buchanan Clark & Wells. My brother received a letter from them recently demanding hundreds of pounds - he hasn't a clue what this debt could be.

We sent the first CCA letter - they promptly sent back the postal order stating "we do not hold copy credit agreements at this office, as we are not the original creditor ... we have placed your account on hold and have requested that our client sends these documents to you direct"

As I understood it, a CCA request means they MUST produce the credit agreement and the notice of assignment - otherwise they have no authority to collect the debt.

So is the next step to write back and request they send the correct info? Should we return the postal order to them? Any advice would be great - many thanks.

Hippocampus

Cabot try to avoid the need to comply with a CCA request, as they think you will be fooled into thinking that they are correct when they say they are not the original creditor. Correct, they are not the lender, but for the purposes of the CCA 1974, they are the creditor, and should comply.

However, being the realists that they are, they know that without an agreement, they are stuffed. And so DO pull out all the stops to get the agreement from the OC, because it is to their benefit.

What is painfully obvious though is, a huge proportion of agreements are nothing of the sort. Varying from basic mailers cut out from newspapers, to impressive but ultimately worthless sheets of nonsense, it is clear than finamncial institutions in days gone by, thought that they were covering their backsides so long as they had the words "regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974" proudly printed somewhere. As they have been finding out over the past couple of years, there's a little more to it than that; the Act expects a whole lot more to be included before the "Agreement" is deemed to be such.

Regarding a Notice of Assignment, unless you have received such a letter BEFORE (and set out correctly) they have tried to collect a debt, then unfortunately for them, the assignment of the debt is NOT YET EFFECTIVE, and so they have no right to make such an attempt. That being the case, yoy are quite entitled to continue your relationship with the original creditor. A letter to that effect will both upset them, and cause a flurry of angry templates to head your way. Excellent.

oasisfeverish

Don't let Crapbot fob you off.

If they are trying to obtain money from you as a debitor the law clearly states they are the creditor. If they are then the creditor then they own the rights and duties of that debt, which means then they HAVE to HAVE the correct paperwork in order to pursue the debt.

It is well known that Crapbot try to use the Property Act 1925 to avoid any CCA request.

After 12+2 (12 working days excluding bank holidays and sundays). The debt cannot be pursued without a) producing correct paperwork, or b) court order, in which they would need a) aswell.

So if they received your letter on 30th Dec, then allowing for BHs then 12+2 is up on Tuesday 13th Jan.

After this date they cannot pursue you for this debt until they produce the correct paperwork, nor can they take you to court and win.

There is a template letter for you to send after the 12+2, advising them that continued requests for payment can result in harrassment and will be reported to the relevant bodies as a complaint.

Stick to your guns, get advice from here. Remember the debt is still there, but don't pay these gutter collectors, rather contact your original lenders and work out an agreement direct with them.

Plus finally once a CCA request has been requested the debt is in dispute and therefore Crapbot cannot legally sell that debt on to another DCA, although they probably will. So keep all your paperwork from them and what you sent, get ready for a fight and report them as soon as they breach the regulations.

The more people report, the more DCAs have to clean up their act.

Good luck.

d0nnyoz

Thanks oasis.
To be fair to Cabot, they have had this debt for probably a year and I have made token payments to them over that period, and they are probably one of the best organised DCA's I have dealt with.
In saying that, I still feel these people are rogues and will do and say anything to extract money from you.

Should I go back to Cabot and state that as they are the current creditor I would expect them to produce the relavent paperwork? I feel like doing that anyway as I feel they probably think they have fobbed me off a little.

Regarding the original creditor (Citi Cards), when I started getting into financial difficulties, I spoke to all of my creditors and these guys were probably the least flexible. They refused to accept ANY compromise and were the first to offload the debt. No discussion. I feel attempting to contact them again about the debt will be fruitless and a waste of time. But, if it means I can string this out a little more then I might do it. What's my grounds for attempting to strike up this relationship again?

oasisfeverish

d0nnyoz wrote: »

Should I go back to Cabot and state that as they are the current creditor I would expect them to produce the relavent paperwork? I feel like doing that anyway as I feel they probably think they have fobbed me off a little.

No you do not have to chase them. Let the 12+2 pass, after this date ignore all requests for payment. They have to produce the CCA as you have now put the account in dispute.

Should they continue to pursue for payment without providing your CCA, you can send them a letter that continued requests for payment without a correctly executed CCA will be ignored and that further communications will be treated as harrassment and reported to the revelant bodies.

d0nnyoz wrote: »

Regarding the original creditor (Citi Cards), when I started getting into financial difficulties, I spoke to all of my creditors and these guys were probably the least flexible. They refused to accept ANY compromise and were the first to offload the debt. No discussion. I feel attempting to contact them again about the debt will be fruitless and a waste of time. But, if it means I can string this out a little more then I might do it. What's my grounds for attempting to strike up this relationship again?

In this case don't bother. Citi Cards will have written off the debt and received a tax break against it. Should Crapbot produce a correctly executed CCA, then you may want to contact Citi with a proposal plan.

Just stick to you guns, and remember should Crapbot produce what they say is a CCA, it doesn't neccessary mean it is correct or legal, so needs to be checked out first.

d0nnyoz

How would I know if its a legal and correct CCA response?

oasisfeverish

d0nnyoz wrote: »

How would I know if its a legal and correct CCA response?

Wait until they send you anything first, and then you can find out if it has all the correct prescribed terms that a CCA need to be properly executed. One failing and it will be thrown out of court as not legal, if it ever gets that far.