Debt that I don't have

Agent

Hi everyone. Hope this is the correct forum.

I had some text messages to my phone asking me to phone 01256 306796 and ask for David Shaw, along with a reference number. I had no idea what it was and dismissed it as a text message scam.

To cut a long story short - the card that was registered to pay my Vonage account had expired and had not been updated. I noticed this when my Vonage service stopped working and phoned them directly to pay (and updated the card).

In the mean time, Vonage had decided that I was scum and sold the missing payments onto these guys. I got a Letter from the debt collection agency after the payment had been made to Vonage. Presumably they had sold the 'debt' on before the letter reached me.

At this point I want to make it 100% clear that I had not had a phonecall or letter from Vonage asking me to update my payment information. The first I heard of it was from this threatening debt collection company (They left several abrupt / rude answering machine messages). They claimed to have sent me emails, but I dispute this. As I said above though, It had been paid before I had a letter from them (and the dates from Vonage in their emails and the dates on the letters from the debt collection agency will confirm this).

I emailed Vonage and explained the situation. They said I was to ignore the letter and that it had been sorted:

Dear <full name>

Thank you for contacting Vonage, the #1 rated digital phone service!

I understand you have paid your outstanding balance.

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused.

As per our records, you paid your outstanding balance of £43.81 on 04-June-2008. Please ignore the automated email sent by the Collection Agency.

If you have any questions, your Vonage team is available to assist you from 8 a.m. to midnight, 7 days a week. Contact us whenever and however it suits you!

- On-Line Help Centre at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help.php
- Contact Us at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help_contactus.php
- Or call us free by dialling 150 from your Vonage line or FreePhone 0800 008 6000

If you call us for Technical Support, in order for our highly trained specialists to successfully assist you, it is highly recommended that you are near the Vonage device you are calling about and in the location you intend to use your Vonage service.

Thanks again for choosing Vonage, a better phone service for less!

Sincerely,

Vonage Customer Care


> > [<email addy> - Fri. Jun. 13 12:59:30 2008]:
> >
> > Telephone:
> > <>
> >
> > Account Number:
> > <>
> >
> > Billing Invoice:
> >
> >
> > I received a letter a few days ago from "C.A.R.S" debt collection
> > agency.
> >
> > This money was paid off to you BEFORE this letter was
> > received.
> >
> > Please ensure you contact C.A.R.S and confirm that I own
> > you or them NO money immediately.
> >
> > Regards
> > <Full name>
> >
> >
> >

I thought nothing more of it. Then another letter came from this debt collection agency. I emailed Vonage again and sent a letter to the debt collection agency:

Vonage email:

Dear <full name>

I understand that you have received another letter from C.A.R.S that states they will start court proceedings against you. I have reviewed your account and can confirm that there is no further outstanding balance due.

In regards to the agreement made between Vonage and yourself, if you are referring to the Terms of Service, you may review this information in its entirety at the following link:

http://www.vonage.co.uk/features_terms_service.php?lid=footer_terms

We will contact C.A.R.S to confirm that you do not owe any further payments to Vonage, and to cease from contacting you any further. I am very sorry for the inconvenience this is causing.

Thank you for your time and patience regarding this matter.

If you have any questions, your Vonage team is available to assist you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Contact us whenever and however it suits you!

-On-Line Help Centre at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help.php
- Contact Us at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help_contactus.php
- Or call us free by dialling 150 from your Vonage line or FreePhone 0800 008 6000

Thanks again for choosing Vonage, a better phone service for less!

Sincerely,

Michael
e-Specialist
Vonage Customer Care



Hello

Today I received ANOTHER letter from C.A.R.S saying that they are going
to start court proceedings against me.

You have already confirmed I owe NO money below.

Please talk to C.A.R.S immediately and get this sorted. If I hear from
this debt collection agency again, I will be reporting you to
appropriate authorities for letting the debt collection agency pursue an
illegal, none existing debt.

In addition - You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged
agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply
a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1)
Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your
obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

I owe you no money. Get it sorted now please.


Regards
<fullname>

As you can see I requested a copy of the alleged agreement, which they ignored.

I got a further email off them not too long after:

Dear <full name>

I have just received correspondence from C.A.R.S and they have confirmed that your records have been updated, and you do not owe any further payments to Vonage.

Please disregard the letter you received from C.A.R.S as it was processed and sent prior to you paying the outstanding balance.

Thank you.

If you have any questions, your Vonage team is available to assist you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Contact us whenever and however it suits you!

-On-Line Help Centre at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help.php
- Contact Us at http://www.vonage.co.uk/help_contactus.php
- Or call us free by dialling 150 from your Vonage line or FreePhone 0800 008 6000

Thanks again for choosing Vonage, a better phone service for less!

Sincerely,

Michael
e-Specialist
Vonage Customer Care

The letter I sent to CARS via recorded delivery was:

Dear C.A.R.S

Ref: <number>
Creditor: Vonage Limited
Client Ref:<number>

I suggest you contact Vonage to confirm that I owe no debt to them. I have spoken to them and have written confirmation that I am not in debt and I have a clear balance with them.
There was no debt either with Vonage before I was contacted by you by post. You will also be able to confirm this with them.

Included are two copies of correspondence with Vonage at the back of this letter.

Therefore, with reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.
This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.
I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.
Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.
In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER:
1.True copy of original credit agreement
2.Statement of account
3.Copy of the executed deed of assignment from Vonage
4.Fair Processing Notice.
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

As this account is now in dispute, I would also draw your attention to The Banking Code section 13.6:-
We may give information to the Credit Reference Agencies about personal debts you owe us if:
•The Amount Owed is Not in Dispute.
•The Office of Fair Trading provided a Code of Guidance that is in relation to Debt Collection: OFT 664 Response to consultation paper and final guidance on unfair business practices dated July 2003
Deceptive and/or Unfair Methods-
2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-
k. Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.
If you continue in your pursuance of this account I will have no other alternative than to report you to both, The Information Commissioner and The Office of Fair Trading.
Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.
I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.
Yours faithfully
<fullname>

I enclosed A £1 postal order and copies of the Emails with Vonage.

I never heard back from them.

Today I got another letter from these jokers. In it they include utter lies about how I have agreed to pay off the debt in instalments and that I have defaulted on them. Suffice to say no communication has been made between me and them bar via post (the letter above).

I am going to post another letter tomorrow via recorded delivery along with a request for the information they old on me under the data protection act. I will also be contacting consumer action group and sending a copy of these to the police - the last thing I want is bailiffs appearing. Is there anyone else I should be contacting?

Many thanks for any help

GeorgeUK

I would contact Vonage and request a copy of their complaints procedures. It is their responsability to clear the matter up with the DCA and have obviously not done so.

I would also get a copy of your credit report (free at experian if you cancel within 30 days - but may not list all your debts) and see if they have marked this as a default or something. I would then inform them of your intention to report both companies to TS and OFT. Also ask for written confirmation that this matter has been dealt with and that they concur that no monies are owed by you.

gailey_2

Im confused whos chasing you for debt? cars or vonage? who are vonage?

I have had dealings with cars few months back when i kept getting weird texts saying contact david shaw. i was curious so googled david shaw and lots come up! Im confused wht texts say david shaw and not CARS seems very odd to me.

Anyway most of the stuff I read was not good CARS are a complete nightmare. I wasent even sure wht they wanted but read alist of companies who used them.

One jumped out at me Love film, cancelled subscription so I phoned them direct it was them, they sorted it out and gave me refund of charges

Has vonage sold teh debt or are CARS working for vonage.

Anyway hope you get it sorted. maybe get advice from cab

Agent

GeorgeUK wrote: »

I would contact Vonage and request a copy of their complaints procedures. It is their responsability to clear the matter up with the DCA and have obviously not done so.

I would also get a copy of your credit report (free at experian if you cancel within 30 days - but may not list all your debts) and see if they have marked this as a default or something. I would then inform them of your intention to report both companies to TS and OFT. Also ask for written confirmation that this matter has been dealt with and that they concur that no monies are owed by you.

Will do - thanks for the reply

gailey wrote: »

Im confused whos chasing you for debt? cars or vonage? who are vonage?

I have had dealings with cars few months back when i kept getting weird texts saying contact david shaw. i was curious so googled david shaw and lots come up! Im confused wht texts say david shaw and not CARS seems very odd to me.

Anyway most of the stuff I read was not good CARS are a complete nightmare. I wasent even sure wht they wanted but read alist of companies who used them.

One jumped out at me Love film, cancelled subscription so I phoned them direct it was them, they sorted it out and gave me refund of charges

Has vonage sold teh debt or are CARS working for vonage.

Anyway hope you get it sorted. maybe get advice from cab

The "debt" (if you want to call it that ) was for Vonage (it was more of a late payment). This was then paid.
After paying I had a letter from CARS (The debt collection agency). CARS is now the company that is chasing me, despite having confirmation from Vonage on several occasions that I owe no money at all.

Vonage are a VOIP service. Linky

Going to get a letter knocked up tonight and send it tomorrow. This is so much hassle

Thanks everyone.