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  • FIRST POST
    • suzisuzz13
    • By suzisuzz13 12th Oct 17, 10:59 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 1Thanks
    suzisuzz13
    charge on property
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:59 PM
    charge on property 12th Oct 17 at 10:59 PM
    I had a charge of 30,000 against our house in my name by a brewery we worked under for unpaid rent on the pub. This charge was put on in 2011, since then the house is now in joint names with my partner and we have 83,000 outstanding on our mortgage 170,000 value which ends next yr. So we tried to remortgage was all going fine now they say they won't complete with the charge in place and to get it removed then they will proceed...
    HELP what do I do now... the charge is not borrowed but a debt::
Page 1
    • glosoli
    • By glosoli 12th Oct 17, 11:13 PM
    • 675 Posts
    • 388 Thanks
    glosoli
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:13 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:13 PM
    Can you release equity to consolidate the secured loan into the mortgage agreement?
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 13th Oct 17, 9:42 AM
    • 36,184 Posts
    • 152,918 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:42 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:42 AM
    Usually all parties would be happy with a deed of postponement. This puts the lender in first place on the list should the worst happen and the property repossessed.

    I can't see any mainstream lender accepting going in second place behind a charge and generally charge holders are understanding of this issue.
    • David White
    • By David White 13th Oct 17, 9:50 AM
    • 863 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    David White
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:50 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:50 AM
    generally charge holders are understanding of this issue.
    Originally posted by silvercar
    Secured loan companies yes, people you've knocked for money who have subsequently put a charge on your property? Not so much.
    I am a Mortgage Broker
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Broker, so you need to take my word for it.
    This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser code of conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 13th Oct 17, 10:08 AM
    • 6,249 Posts
    • 6,030 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 17, 10:08 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 17, 10:08 AM
    Are you borrowing enough to pay off the debt? Not clear from your post.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 13th Oct 17, 11:08 AM
    • 36,184 Posts
    • 152,918 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 17, 11:08 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 17, 11:08 AM
    Secured loan companies yes, people you've knocked for money who have subsequently put a charge on your property? Not so much.
    Originally posted by David White
    Would the charge holder have had to agree to transfer the mortgage/ property into joint names? If so, it shows they are prepared to talk at least.

    Are you borrowing enough to pay off the debt? Not clear from your post.
    by davidmcn
    Presumably not as the charge just sits there until sale, with no need to pay interest or make repayments to the charge. That would be an option - to take a mortgage large enough to clear the charge.
    • David White
    • By David White 13th Oct 17, 11:49 AM
    • 863 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    David White
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 17, 11:49 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 17, 11:49 AM
    Would the charge holder have had to agree to transfer the mortgage/ property into joint names? If so, it shows they are prepared to talk at least.
    Originally posted by silvercar
    How flexible would you be if suzisuzz13 owed you 30 grand?
    I am a Mortgage Broker
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Broker, so you need to take my word for it.
    This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser code of conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 13th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    • 36,184 Posts
    • 152,918 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:22 PM
    How flexible would you be if suzisuzz13 owed you 30 grand?
    Originally posted by David White
    Pragmatically, if they paid off a chunk now, I would agree a deed of postponement. Based on a 50% LTV the charge still sits safely til sale. That charge has sat there since 2011 with not a penny paid over. Unless they sell they aren't paying anything. Given a charge can't force a sale, the charge holder isn't seeing a penny.
    • David White
    • By David White 13th Oct 17, 12:37 PM
    • 863 Posts
    • 378 Thanks
    David White
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:37 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 12:37 PM
    I'm clearly more stubborn than you are
    I am a Mortgage Broker
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Broker, so you need to take my word for it.
    This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser code of conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • suzisuzz13
    • By suzisuzz13 19th Oct 17, 10:41 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    suzisuzz13
    Write to them and had no respouse, this is the restriction on my deed , the cHare is only in my name and no we dI'd not get permission from the brewery when the house went into joint names ... all very confusing....
    (02.02.2011) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate, other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to The brewery, being the person with the benefit of an interim charging order on the beneficial interest of only me. made by the r County Court on anuary 2011 (Court reference ). (14.06.2011) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate,
    • suzisuzz13
    • By suzisuzz13 19th Oct 17, 10:44 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    suzisuzz13
    no
    Can't afford any more were 58 now x
    • suzisuzz13
    • By suzisuzz13 19th Oct 17, 10:48 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    suzisuzz13
    Not a loan it was what we owed the brewery when we left the business as there was no other way
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 19th Oct 17, 10:51 PM
    • 56,183 Posts
    • 49,567 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Rather than remortgage. Obtain the best deal you can from your existing lender.
    “Opportunities come infrequently. When it rains gold, put out the bucket, not the thimble”
    ― Warren Buffett
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 20th Oct 17, 9:06 AM
    • 36,184 Posts
    • 152,918 Thanks
    silvercar
    Write to them and had no respouse, this is the restriction on my deed , the cHare is only in my name and no we dI'd not get permission from the brewery when the house went into joint names ... all very confusing....
    (02.02.2011) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate, other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to The brewery, being the person with the benefit of an interim charging order on the beneficial interest of only me. made by the r County Court on anuary 2011 (Court reference ). (14.06.2011) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate,
    Originally posted by suzisuzz13
    It is 'interesting' that you were able to transfer the property to joint names, yet leave a charge in your name alone. Effectively half the equity is now out of the clutches of the charge holder.

    I'm curious how the Land Registry would allow this to happen without the charge holder's consent.

    It seems the Lender's legal team are more aware of the issue. Is this a new lender? Or the existing lender, the existing lender has first call on the equity, so shouldn't have an issue.


    Wrong info crossed out.

    The charge sits there until such time as it is paid off. Any new lender would be aware of it and it may influence their decision to lend.
    Last edited by silvercar; 23-10-2017 at 8:51 AM.
  • Land Registry
    Write to them and had no respouse, this is the restriction on my deed , the cHare is only in my name and no we dI'd not get permission from the brewery when the house went into joint names ... all very confusing....
    (02.02.2011) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate, other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to The brewery, being the person with the benefit of an interim charging order on the beneficial interest of only me. made by the r County Court on anuary 2011 (Court reference ). (14.06.2011) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate,
    Originally posted by suzisuzz13
    It's important to distinguish between charges/legal charges and other interests when dealing with what is on the land register.

    What you have here is a (form K) restriction registered to protect a charging order made against you alone. It's not a legal charge, in the way that a mortgage would be, as OP already appreciates, and you can't 'postpone' a restriction in the way being suggested.

    Such a restriction is normally registered where there are joint owners and the debt is against just one and the creditor protects that interest on the register. See our Practice Guide on Charging Orders

    The wording of the restriciton is important as it requires you to notify the creditor, the Brewery, should you remortgage/sell for example. It doesn't require their permission/consent as many restricitons often do. It requires you to notify them and then certify that you have done so to us as part of any application. The solicitor would normally take care of that for you.

    Issues usually arise where owners want to sell - see the MSE thread Charging Order - the myth for more details and experiences around that issue

    A remortgage is a different issue for you as you are not selling but trying to secure additional funding. The lender will see the charging order as an issue but in a different light. Whilst you could simply notify the creditor of the new charge and have it registered the lender clearly does not wish to do so.

    As such it seems that as others have posted it is very much a case of either satisfying their requirements or considering an alternative lender
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • suzisuzz13
    • By suzisuzz13 21st Oct 17, 8:26 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    suzisuzz13
    Thank you all so much, not so confused now.
    However, could I get the restriction removed myself, and if so which form would I need to send.
    really appreciate everyone's help x
    • -taff
    • By -taff 21st Oct 17, 8:37 PM
    • 7,161 Posts
    • 5,159 Thanks
    -taff
    The breery would have to remove the permission and that doesn't look likely
  • Land Registry
    Form RX3 for you to cancel. Form RX4 for creditor to withdraw it.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cancel-a-restriction-registration-rx3
    If you apply to cancel then you will need to submit evidence to show that their CO/charge no longer exists
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 23rd Oct 17, 8:49 AM
    • 36,184 Posts
    • 152,918 Thanks
    silvercar
    Thank you all so much, not so confused now.
    However, could I get the restriction removed myself, and if so which form would I need to send.
    really appreciate everyone's help x
    Originally posted by suzisuzz13
    Do you want to pay it off at this time?
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