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  • FIRST POST
    • melb
    • By melb 11th Oct 17, 3:52 PM
    • 2,507Posts
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    melb
    17 year old paid NI and tax but can't sign on for JSA
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 17, 3:52 PM
    17 year old paid NI and tax but can't sign on for JSA 11th Oct 17 at 3:52 PM
    Hi there my daughter left school after GCSEs last summer and has worked more or less ever since full time.

    She has paid tax and NI during this time.

    Her present contract wasn't renewed at the end of last month and she is having a couple of weeks to think about she wants to do. I said she should "sign on" to keep her NI contributions going and as she has paid into the system she is entitled to take from it until she either returns to education or starts work/apprenticeship elsewhere.

    Apparently she can't do this until she is 18.

    is this correct?
Page 1
    • Timberflake1983
    • By Timberflake1983 11th Oct 17, 4:27 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Timberflake1983
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 4:27 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 17, 4:27 PM
    Looks correct according to the government website https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/eligibility
    • Thomas The Tank Top
    • By Thomas The Tank Top 11th Oct 17, 5:32 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 483 Thanks
    Thomas The Tank Top
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 5:32 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 17, 5:32 PM
    Do you mean Summer 2016 or Summer 2017 (the one just gone).

    Either way, one has to pay in to the system for two continuous tax years before one is eligible to abuse it.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 11th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    • 1,491 Posts
    • 3,124 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    Hi there my daughter left school after GCSEs last summer and has worked more or less ever since full time.

    She has paid tax and NI during this time.

    Her present contract wasn't renewed at the end of last month and she is having a couple of weeks to think about she wants to do. I said she should "sign on" to keep her NI contributions going and as she has paid into the system she is entitled to take from it until she either returns to education or starts work/apprenticeship elsewhere.

    Apparently she can't do this until she is 18.

    is this correct?
    Originally posted by melb
    You misunderstand the point of JSA. It is not a savings fund that you pay into and then take from it when you fancy a few weeks off. It is for people actively seeking work, not for time to think about things.

    There is an expectation that a 17 year old is either in work, training or education. I suggest she works out very quickly which one she wishes to do.
    • stator
    • By stator 11th Oct 17, 7:55 PM
    • 5,861 Posts
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    stator
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 7:55 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Oct 17, 7:55 PM
    There is an expectation that a 17 year old is either in work, training or education. I suggest she works out very quickly which one she wishes to do.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    You forgot one: Work, Education, Training or Spunging off parents

    Parents still have an obligation to support their children at 17. And parents are the best motivator to get their kids out there and finding work or training etc.

    At 17 she can still enrol in local colleges for free, get an NVQ or something relevant to the field.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 11th Oct 17, 8:11 PM
    • 1,241 Posts
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    xapprenticex
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:11 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:11 PM
    I'm quite disturbed by your attitude towards JSA. As stated, it is NOT some kind of savings account.
    • melb
    • By melb 11th Oct 17, 9:34 PM
    • 2,507 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    melb
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:34 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Oct 17, 9:34 PM
    thanks for all replies!
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 11th Oct 17, 10:40 PM
    • 19,570 Posts
    • 31,591 Thanks
    Spendless
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:40 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Oct 17, 10:40 PM
    Do you mean Summer 2016 or Summer 2017 (the one just gone).

    Either way, one has to pay in to the system for two continuous tax years before one is eligible to abuse it.
    Originally posted by Thomas The Tank Top
    Is this correct? Can't an 18yo claim JSA even if they have not been working for the previous 2 years?
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 12th Oct 17, 4:50 AM
    • 15,943 Posts
    • 39,733 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 17, 4:50 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Oct 17, 4:50 AM
    I don't agree with the posters. OP talked about signing on to get NI contributions, not to get an income and I agree with them that it is another way the system penalises those working. She was working FT, so what has her age got to do with it?

    Yet a few months old, never worked, but ok to sign on and get both NI contribution and an income! And then the politicians wonder why young people's motivation to work is so low!
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Oct 17, 8:27 AM
    • 3,946 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    Whether you agree with other posters or not is irrelevant. That's the law.
    • melb
    • By melb 12th Oct 17, 8:42 AM
    • 2,507 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    melb
    Thanks Fbaby for actually reading my post
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 12th Oct 17, 10:57 AM
    • 10,750 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    Jobseekers Allowance is normally only paid to those over 18. However, under certain circumstances as set out below, JSA can be claimed and paid to those between 16 and 17 years. JSA is for those who are capable and available for work; are not in full time education or training and are currently unemployed.

    Your first action should be at the Jobcentre Plus. You have to attend in person. You will be directed to a special advisor for 16 – 17 year olds. You cannot claim on line. There are set procedures for 16 to 17 (and not yet 18) which will be explained by the specialist young person advisor.

    Who told you that she cannot sign on for JSA?

    It is not common but not impossible either.

    Universal Credit is now available for most single people but the minimum age with a few exceptions is 18 yrs.

    Try going to the Job Centre in person or try CAB for further advice.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 17, 12:48 PM
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    • 6,226 Thanks
    sangie595
    Thanks Fbaby for actually reading my post
    Originally posted by melb
    Actually, so did everybody else - which is why we noticed "she has paid into the system she is entitled to take from it until she either returns to education or starts work/apprenticeship elsewhere" and "she is having a couple of weeks to think about she wants to do". It's your attitude and emphasis that got you the responses you got!
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 12th Oct 17, 4:43 PM
    • 15,943 Posts
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    FBaby
    Whether you agree with other posters or not is irrelevant. That's the law.
    So glad you posted this because no-one had figured that one at! Some posters posted that they thought the law was fair, I posted to say I didn't think it was.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 12th Oct 17, 8:20 PM
    • 1,241 Posts
    • 1,135 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    Thanks Fbaby for actually reading my post
    Originally posted by melb
    I kinda get the impression you have failed to read any of ours if you still don't get it. Anywho, your daughter is not getting JSA / thread.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 13th Oct 17, 11:02 PM
    • 1,573 Posts
    • 763 Thanks
    Mersey
    Most appear to have clicked on Timberflake's link (refers to aged 18+), without reading the exceptions (yes, some 16 and 17-year-olds can claim).


    Pmlindyloo is absolutely right in her detailed post above.

    IAmWales - NICs are basically that though, which is why once you have worked for a period you are 'entitled' to contributions-based JSA and other benefits.


    Indeed if any claimant appeals a decision of the DWP such as a refusal or sanction, it is heard in the First Tier Tribunal of the Social Entitlement Chamber (to use the old jargon).


    I realise many people have a problem with the word 'entitled' but it merely means a claimant 'qualifies' for eg child benefit if they have a child. There really is no need for a rant by sangie595 about 'entitlement' just when an OP happens to use the (correct) word.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 14th Oct 17, 8:49 AM
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    sangie595
    I realise many people have a problem with the word 'entitled' but it merely means a claimant 'qualifies' for eg child benefit if they have a child. There really is no need for a rant by sangie595 about 'entitlement' just when an OP happens to use the (correct) word.
    Originally posted by Mersey
    I realise that (in your opinion) you are the only MSE poster entitled to an opinion, and always correct in everything that you say, and that therefore nobody is allowed to disagree with you - but really, get over it. There was no "rant". "Entitlement" does not merely mean that someone qualifies for a benefit. It also means someone who "thinks themselves inherently deserving of special treatment or privileges". This is an attitude, and exactly the attitude that the OP indicated. Not "she's looking hard for a job and I don't understand why she can't claim JSA" but "she's paid some tax and NI so she should get JSA to sit around for a few weeks thinking". The fact that your, personally, do not agree with someone, does not make comments a rant.
    • NewShadow
    • By NewShadow 14th Oct 17, 10:26 AM
    • 2,225 Posts
    • 10,188 Thanks
    NewShadow
    Jobseekers Allowance is normally only paid to those over 18. However, under certain circumstances as set out below, JSA can be claimed and paid to those between 16 and 17 years. JSA is for those who are capable and available for work; are not in full time education or training and are currently unemployed.

    Your first action should be at the Jobcentre Plus. You have to attend in person. You will be directed to a special advisor for 16 – 17 year olds. You cannot claim on line. There are set procedures for 16 to 17 (and not yet 18) which will be explained by the specialist young person advisor.

    Who told you that she cannot sign on for JSA?

    It is not common but not impossible either.

    Universal Credit is now available for most single people but the minimum age with a few exceptions is 18 yrs.

    Try going to the Job Centre in person or try CAB for further advice.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    She can't sign on for JSA.

    JSA for 16/17 year olds is only available when the young person is suffering 'Severe Hardship' AND is not being supported by their parent or legal guardian through estrangement or orphanage.

    That would not be the case in this situation because - even if the OPs daughter was currently living independently and suffering financial hardship - she is clearly not estranged from her parents and therefore - according to the rules - they should be supporting her.

    DWP Guidance for staff on validating claims for under 18 claimants: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/235102/jsa-16-17-severe-hardship.pdf
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    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 14th Oct 17, 11:35 PM
    • 1,573 Posts
    • 763 Thanks
    Mersey
    I realise that (in your opinion) you are the only MSE poster entitled to an opinion, and always correct in everything that you say, and that therefore nobody is allowed to disagree with you - but really, get over it. There was no "rant". "Entitlement" does not merely mean that someone qualifies for a benefit. It also means someone who "thinks themselves inherently deserving of special treatment or privileges".


    This is an attitude, and exactly the attitude that the OP indicated. Not "she's looking hard for a job and I don't understand why she can't claim JSA" but "she's paid some tax and NI so she should get JSA to sit around for a few weeks thinking". The fact that your, personally, do not agree with someone, does not make comments a rant.
    Originally posted by sangie595


    You're perfectly entitled to disagree with OPs and myself - indeed it appears to be what you always do - but you are not entitled to be rude in posts to OPs or post untrue beliefs as fact, as MSE moderators have warned you on several occasions.


    As pointed out in post 9 by FBbay, the OP in fact referred to NICs not JSA £, so please don't misrepresent the OP again. Nor did the OP say, 'to sit around for a few weeks' even though you have mischievously chosen to put your accusatory thoughts in quotation marks.


    I realise you are irked because the moderators deleted your abusive post towards myself [after I had had to correct you on facts yet again - it's simply untrue that issuing could cost more than owed wages]; but, please Sangie595, have a day off from being rude to OPs. It might be good for your health and the blood pressure of OPs.
    Last edited by Mersey; 14-10-2017 at 11:44 PM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 15th Oct 17, 12:04 AM
    • 5,051 Posts
    • 10,304 Thanks
    iammumtoone
    I think some have been unfairly rude to the OP.

    There is nothing wrong is asking if someone is entitled to JSA even adults have to question this as its not always the case if you haven't paid enough NI.

    Also most adults when they first start claiming will take the first couple of weeks thinking about what they want to do and how they will achieve that - it is perfectly possible to do this at the same time as job searching.
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