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  • FIRST POST
    • Forafriend
    • By Forafriend 5th Oct 17, 10:56 AM
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    Forafriend
    Is my husband entitled to a pension taken out before we met?
    • #1
    • 5th Oct 17, 10:56 AM
    Is my husband entitled to a pension taken out before we met? 5th Oct 17 at 10:56 AM
    As article title suggests. I’m looking for advice on whether me soon to be ex husband is entitled to my pension that I drew before we met. I have two further pensions that I know he would possibly be entitled too.

    Where do I stand in terms of the house? I have put more money into the house than he has...I understand he would be entitled to half but is there any chance he would be entitled to more of the house?

    I am now retired, he is still working, albeit part time. We met when our children were both grown up therefore no children to consider.

    I am happy to split our finances I.e savings, house, furniture 50/50. However, if my ex husband were to take half of two of my pensions then I would struggle financially. Would this have any impact on the courts decision?

    Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Oct 17, 11:15 AM
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    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 17, 11:15 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Oct 17, 11:15 AM
    s my husband entitled to a pension taken out before we met?
    Potentially, yes.

    Both yours and his current assets can be used in a settlement.

    I am happy to split our finances I.e savings, house, furniture 50/50. However, if my ex husband were to take half of two of my pensions then I would struggle financially. Would this have any impact on the courts decision?
    If a settlement cannot be agreed then the courts will be involved and they look at both sides. it is possible that both sides end up suffering financially.

    What does your solicitor say when you ask them this? (as they know your situation - we do not)
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 5th Oct 17, 11:22 AM
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    bertiewhite
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 17, 11:22 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Oct 17, 11:22 AM
    As it was explained to me by my solicitor, my ex-wife was entitled to half of the 13 years that we were together of what I had accrued on a 22 year Armed Forces pension.

    So basically half of 13/22ths.

    That suggests to me that it was only for the time we were together - anything before or after we were together was untouchable.
    • Forafriend
    • By Forafriend 5th Oct 17, 11:51 AM
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    Forafriend
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 11:51 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Oct 17, 11:51 AM
    I haven’t been able to seek advice from a solicitor as of yet. I said the term ‘soon to be’ as it is my intention to divorce.

    My ex husband has said he will not move out of the home we share and I worry how I will proceed.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 5th Oct 17, 12:08 PM
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    Silvertabby
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:08 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:08 PM
    Will your divorce be under English or Scottish law?

    If Scottish, then only pension accrued during your marriage is thrown into the marital assets pot. If English, then the whole lot is counted.
    • atush
    • By atush 5th Oct 17, 12:12 PM
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    atush
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:12 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:12 PM
    I haven’t been able to seek advice from a solicitor as of yet. I said the term ‘soon to be’ as it is my intention to divorce.

    My ex husband has said he will not move out of the home we share and I worry how I will proceed.
    Originally posted by Forafriend
    Consult a solicitor without delay.
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 5th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
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    bertiewhite
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:15 PM
    If English, then the whole lot is counted.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Mine wasn't - only the 13 years we'd been together as I explained, although it was 7 years ago now so things might have changed. Only a solicitor will be able to say for sure.
    Last edited by bertiewhite; 05-10-2017 at 12:18 PM.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 5th Oct 17, 12:34 PM
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    PeacefulWaters
    • #8
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:34 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:34 PM
    If English, then the whole lot is counted.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Only from the point of cohabitation.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Oct 17, 12:44 PM
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    dunstonh
    • #9
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:44 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Oct 17, 12:44 PM
    There needs to be a bit of clarification here. The WHOLE pension from before the relationship can be used in the settlement as a choice or necessity.

    e.g. it may be that the settlement requires you to pay £50,000. However, you may not have £50,000 and instead, your pension could be used in its place. That pension may have accrued fully before you were co-habiting.

    So, the asset can be used. However, whether it is is included in your liability to the other party is a different matter.
    • Forafriend
    • By Forafriend 5th Oct 17, 12:54 PM
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    Forafriend
    To clarify, we met when both our children were grown up.
    We have been married for 9 years.
    We both sold our houses put the money together and bought our home.
    We have both worked, we both have private pensions and state pensions although he is not due his pension until 66. He is 62. I have two private pensions. The better private pension was drawn before we met. The other private pension was started around 5 years into our marriage.
    He currently works part time and has planned to continue working until 66 then get his pension.
    We’re married under English Law.
    We have savings.
    We have a mortgage free home with no dependents living with us.

    I am happy to split savings and home 50/50.
    From what I understand he could only go for the pension that has accrued whilst married?

    I’m unsure what would happen if he refused to sell or refused to accept what I am offering.

    Also from what I understand I could technically go for his pension as that is also considered an asset?

    I want this split to be as amicable as possible.
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 5th Oct 17, 12:54 PM
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    bertiewhite
    So, the asset can be used. However, whether it is is included in your liability to the other party is a different matter.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    But the OP is asking what her husband is ENTITLED to, not what she can CHOOSE to give him.
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 5th Oct 17, 12:56 PM
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    bertiewhite
    Also from what I understand I could technically go for his pension as that is also considered an asset?
    Originally posted by Forafriend
    It's NET assets - you are entitled as well. But be aware that debts are included in the statements you must give so in effect, it's the total equity that you both have.


    I want this split to be as amicable as possible.
    Originally posted by Forafriend
    You don't HAVE to argue over it - my ex and I agreed she would stay in the house as the equity was roughly equally to what she was entitled to out my projected pension. It seemed a sensible agreement as she wanted to stay in the house, we'd have to sell it to realise the equity and the pension wasn't accessible at the time (still isn't).

    Try talking about it but do get professional advise as well - my solicitor kept asking what I wanted out of it instead of telling me what to do..
    Last edited by bertiewhite; 05-10-2017 at 1:02 PM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Oct 17, 1:04 PM
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    dunstonh
    But the OP is asking what her husband is ENTITLED to, not what she can CHOOSE to give him.
    Originally posted by bertiewhite
    The two things are related though. Lets say the op wants the house. There may be no choice to use the pension to allow that to happen.

    Just because the pension is from before their relationship, doesnt mean it cannot be used. There may be enough cash available to pay the settlement to not use any of the pension (including that accrued whilst in the relationship).

    Entitlement, choice and inevitability all come into play.

    Moving on.. I have seen a number of couples divorce over the years and until the solicitor is involved, both sides tend to have a poor expectation of how the assets will be divided. Entitlement expectation can be very different to the end result.
    Last edited by dunstonh; 05-10-2017 at 1:25 PM.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Oct 17, 1:21 PM
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    Pollycat
    As it was explained to me by my solicitor, my ex-wife was entitled to half of the 13 years that we were together of what I had accrued on a 22 year Armed Forces pension.

    So basically half of 13/22ths.

    That suggests to me that it was only for the time we were together - anything before or after we were together was untouchable.
    Originally posted by bertiewhite
    That's exactly what happened to my friend.
    She got half of her ex's pension for the time they were together, he retained the full value of the years before that.

    They went through mediation to arrive at this (as well as the house split, child access etc).
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 5th Oct 17, 1:42 PM
    • 131 Posts
    • 396 Thanks
    crv1963
    The answer simply put is yes!


    The aim of the court will be to put both parties on an equal footing financially post divorce.


    Best thing is to get a solicitor advice things like length of time co-habiting before marriage also count. Both parties need housing so it would be best to discuss and seek to reach some basis for an agreement whilst things are amicable, I know some couples remain amicable but once the process start then this can and does disappear!


    My ex-wife got a % of my total pension pot and that I had accrued this some 11 years before we met was not taken into account!


    Husband would be a fool moving out as once his housing needs are met then he loses leverage- and yes I had moved out!
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Forafriend
    • By Forafriend 5th Oct 17, 1:59 PM
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    Forafriend
    @crv1963 sorry, I don’t understand. Did your ex wife get some of your pension that you drew 11 years before you met?
    • Forafriend
    • By Forafriend 5th Oct 17, 2:06 PM
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    Forafriend
    Neither of us have debts. So that I’m not concerned about.

    What is worrying me though is the house side of things.

    We have a property worth about £200k. I’m not sure how much my pensions are worth but if he’s only entitled to 10 years of the two pensions I’ve had since we met that will not be £100k.

    I have read numerous articles that have stated the house has been signed over to the spouse to avoid them getting any of the pension.

    I will not be able to afford another house if I do not get my half (£100k of the house). Through my pensions alone I would just about survive.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 5th Oct 17, 2:16 PM
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    dunstonh
    I have read numerous articles that have stated the house has been signed over to the spouse to avoid them getting any of the pension.
    yes. That often happens as a choice.

    To simplify it, you need to think about your assets in a monetary form rather than actual physical items. If you tot up all your assets as a value that would be included in the calculation and your spouse does the same, there will be a split in monetary terms.

    It may be that you owe the other party £50k. You can choose how that £50k is paid. If you don't have savings, you could use the pension (however, pensions in payment don't carry the same weight at a pension in the accumulation stage and some cant be split). Or it may be a case that you agree with the other party that they keep the house and they pay you £150k (£200k house value minus the £50k you owed). Or neither of you keep the house and you get to pocket £50k from the sale and the other party gets £150k. This is really simplifying it but it is effectively that concept.

    As bertiewhite says higher up, you can agree these things amicably. Both solicitors on either side should ensure that their respective client is not being treated unfairly but if you have an outcome you both agree with, then it doesnt need to be messy (or expensive)

    It is also worth remembering that the only winners in a divorce are the solicitors. There will need to be give and take on both sides and losing something you value is almost inevitable.
    Last edited by dunstonh; 05-10-2017 at 2:18 PM.
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 5th Oct 17, 2:24 PM
    • 131 Posts
    • 396 Thanks
    crv1963
    @crv1963 sorry, I don’t understand. Did your ex wife get some of your pension that you drew 11 years before you met?
    Originally posted by Forafriend


    I wasn't drawing it, I was still accruing it. The court looked at the size of my pot, deducted the size of her smaller pension pot and split the remainder down the middle ie


    My pot 200k her pot 50k so added together 250k. Split 50:50 125k each so 75k taken from my pot and added to hers. The figures were higher in real life but I used these for ease of understanding.


    The court gave no leeway that I'd accrued 11years worth of pension pot before I met her.


    You really need to see a Solicitor as I think you are using/ living on pension so the figures will be different. You could look at divorce forum by dterry it is informative and like here rapid replies.


    CRV
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • Forafriend
    • By Forafriend 5th Oct 17, 2:30 PM
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    Forafriend
    I don’t understand why I would have to pay out £50k?

    So I would pay out £50k but still get to keep all of my pensions?
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