Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • peterkay369
    • By peterkay369 15th Mar 17, 5:29 PM
    • 161Posts
    • 68Thanks
    peterkay369
    Possible BRO and whether to fight it?
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:29 PM
    Possible BRO and whether to fight it? 15th Mar 17 at 5:29 PM
    Hi all,

    Received a letter through the post today notifying me that my conduct may warrant a BRO. My debt is due to gambling however the reason that they are investigating me is down to: "Obtaining credit with no reasonable prospect of repayment".

    At the time of me obtaining credit, I was able to repay the credit without an issue and was fully up to date with my repayments until a few months ago where I was made homeless and also had a change of job with a drop in pay.

    Do you think it's worth fighting against this, or is it just a case of rolling back and accepting it? I was hoping to apply for a mortgage ASAP (I know this will be until at least 3 years until after discharge) and have also thrown around the idea of starting up a business in the future, both of which I won't be able to do under a BRO.

    Help please
Page 1
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 15th Mar 17, 5:50 PM
    • 36,049 Posts
    • 152,271 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:50 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:50 PM
    What do you lose by appealing?
    • peterkay369
    • By peterkay369 15th Mar 17, 5:54 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    peterkay369
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:54 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:54 PM
    I thought it may be a case of if it goes through the courts to decide, it'll be harsher/longer?
    • london1973
    • By london1973 15th Mar 17, 5:59 PM
    • 330 Posts
    • 92 Thanks
    london1973
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:59 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:59 PM
    When did you obtain the credit, in relation to your bankruptcy date, and in what form did it take (i.e loan, credit card etc)

    Also do you mind me asking when you were made BR and when your OR interview was?
    • peterkay369
    • By peterkay369 15th Mar 17, 8:42 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    peterkay369
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 8:42 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 8:42 PM
    have had loans, credit cards etc for years, however took two fairly big loans out mid/late 2016 (approx 30-40% of total valye). made homeless end of 2016. new job (less money, less stress!) beginning of 2017 and bankruptcy applied for at the start of Feb when I knew for definite things wouldnt improve.

    BR is start of Feb, 3rd or 4th maybe and OR interview was around the 10th Feb
    • london1973
    • By london1973 15th Mar 17, 9:42 PM
    • 330 Posts
    • 92 Thanks
    london1973
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:42 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:42 PM
    If you are confident you can argue that at the time of taking the loans you could service them, on your salary at the time, then I would suggest you have a good case to appeal, given the timelines between the point you took the loans and your BR date
    • peterkay369
    • By peterkay369 16th Mar 17, 12:42 AM
    • 161 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    peterkay369
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 12:42 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Mar 17, 12:42 AM
    Thank you.

    The letter received today is just to notify me that they are looking at it and states I don't need to reply.
    Would it be better to instantly go in on the defensive and show I am not just going to roll over and accept it? In the hopes that they may see it as "too much hassle" to pursue? Or shall I stay quiet until I'm asked for anything?

    Has anyone on here disagreed with them receiving a BRO and appealed against it, and more importantly not received one as a result of this?
    • london1973
    • By london1973 16th Mar 17, 9:21 AM
    • 330 Posts
    • 92 Thanks
    london1973
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:21 AM
    • #8
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:21 AM
    i would do nothing, seems to be the repeated advice on the forum, the more visible you are the more likely your file will be nearer the top of the pile, that's just a hunch gained from reading this forum for the past 12 months

    with me they are also 'looking into' something and I haven't heard anything for 5 months now, so i'm sweating it out and keeping as low a profile as possible

    Again my advice is based on instinct, I am not an expert
    • A4445
    • By A4445 17th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    • 607 Posts
    • 281 Thanks
    A4445
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    I received a BRU for 3.5 years for spending money with no reasonable way to repay. I had some serious mental health issues at the time, but it was true I spent the money.

    I didn't appeal I took the punishment. If it had gone to court they were applying for 4.5 years so I got a year discount for agreeing to it.

    TBH it was no big deal having it didn't make any difference to my day to day life. It would be better not to have one, but if you get one I wouldn't worry about it.
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 17th Mar 17, 7:12 PM
    • 4,165 Posts
    • 5,832 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Hi,
    Thanks for your PM.
    I would be inclined to do nothing until asked, but would be building my case in the background.
    I see your point about the 'borrowing money with no reasonable prospect of repayment' as it appears that you could afford the repayments until the event(s) that quickly led to bankruptcy, namely homelessness and a drop in income.
    Your bigger danger is if they claim you where involved in 'Rash or hazardous speculation' as if gambling was directly funded by the borrowing and was a significant portion of the BR debt then this could be relatively easy to demonstrate.
    Both behaviours could bring about a BRU/O.
    With the suggested behaviour in the ORs letter, then I think you should challenge their claim (when they get back to you), and see if they push that after your counter argument.
    Sometimes the IS propose a BRU when they know they do not have the evidence level for a BRO through the courts. Obviously I can't tell if this will be accurate in your case.
    The whole point of a BRO/U is for public and future creditor protection. If you have since received help with your gambling problem and you no longer gamble, then you could also make the point that the behaviour they are trying to protect against is unlikely to happen.
    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • peterkay369
    • By peterkay369 19th Mar 17, 9:59 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    peterkay369
    I received a BRU for 3.5 years for spending money with no reasonable way to repay. I had some serious mental health issues at the time, but it was true I spent the money.

    I didn't appeal I took the punishment. If it had gone to court they were applying for 4.5 years so I got a year discount for agreeing to it.

    TBH it was no big deal having it didn't make any difference to my day to day life. It would be better not to have one, but if you get one I wouldn't worry about it.
    Originally posted by A4445
    Thank you, good to know I guess that it'll potentially be a harsher punishment if it does go to court. Fingers crossed it doesn't go that far!
    • peterkay369
    • By peterkay369 19th Mar 17, 10:05 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    peterkay369
    Hi,
    Thanks for your PM.
    I would be inclined to do nothing until asked, but would be building my case in the background.
    I see your point about the 'borrowing money with no reasonable prospect of repayment' as it appears that you could afford the repayments until the event(s) that quickly led to bankruptcy, namely homelessness and a drop in income.
    Your bigger danger is if they claim you where involved in 'Rash or hazardous speculation' as if gambling was directly funded by the borrowing and was a significant portion of the BR debt then this could be relatively easy to demonstrate.
    Both behaviours could bring about a BRU/O.
    With the suggested behaviour in the ORs letter, then I think you should challenge their claim (when they get back to you), and see if they push that after your counter argument.
    Sometimes the IS propose a BRU when they know they do not have the evidence level for a BRO through the courts. Obviously I can't tell if this will be accurate in your case.
    The whole point of a BRO/U is for public and future creditor protection. If you have since received help with your gambling problem and you no longer gamble, then you could also make the point that the behaviour they are trying to protect against is unlikely to happen.
    DD
    Originally posted by debt doctor
    Thanks DD, I've started putting bits and pieces together and have a full time line of things. At the time of taking out credit, I could afford to repay, it's only circumstances that followed which caused the real issues.

    If it was for "rash or hazardous spending" as you said, I think I'd just accept it to be honest as I cannot argue, but the fact that they are pursuing for taking out credit with no way to pay is incorrect. So I would be arguing on a technicality.

    I guess the next question is, if I successfully persuade them (or it goes through the courts and they decide I could afford the credit at the time), can the IS then come after me again to give me a BRO for a different reason (reckless spending) or do they only have the one chance and then I get to "walk free"?

    Thanks!
    • standalone
    • By standalone 23rd Mar 17, 11:00 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    standalone
    Just one other point to keep in mind if you decide to challenge a BRO in the court, is your case my be reported in your local newspaper if you lose on the day.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,838Posts Today

8,614Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Sadly for those buying jointly "Where there are joint purchasers, all purchasers would need to be first-time buyers. "

  • First time buyers usually defined as someone who has never owned or part owned a property https://t.co/yM3urZNs8z

  • You will not pay stamp duty https://t.co/vHoCWiUXfo

  • Follow Martin