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  • FIRST POST
    • boatman
    • By boatman 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • 3,299Posts
    • 2,323Thanks
    boatman
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us 12th Mar 17 at 11:42 AM
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
Page 1
    • martinthebandit
    • By martinthebandit 12th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    • 3,174 Posts
    • 5,397 Thanks
    martinthebandit
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    Sorry but I am going to have a rant. Today several times under different headings and topics in and on the media, I have heard the statement " older people have had it too good, for too long. " I know older people who have retired and travel round the world, something I'll never be able to afford". And " why should youngsters supplement pensions for the elderly".
    Well at 67 let me tell these 'ignorant' young people, I and many others of my age left school at 15 and have worked, paid, and still paying my taxes, National insurance and paid into a private pension in readiness for my retirement. NO ONE SUPPLEMENTS me. I get out of the system the money I put into it. When I married at nineteen Until my second child was born I washed my washing in the bath tub, we didn't have a mobile phone each, we didn't have a car each, we didn't smoke, we didn't go out to nightclubs etc, we didn't have super Dooper buses that took our prams or pushchairs. You try getting on a bus with all your shopping, folding down a pushchair and holding onto a child in the other arm. We didn't go on holidays when the interest rates on houses was ll to 15% because we couldn't afford both. We bought a tiny property that we could afford, had second hand furniture while we worked to better ourselves, and we walked our kids to school because we couldn't afford a car. But through hard work and savings,( not buying all the materialistic stuff people seem to think its their right to have today) it provided us with a good retirement that we are enjoying now. Our pension IS NOT A BENEFIT its money paid out to us that has been paid in by us. Those youngsters that keep moaning about how hard it is today, I suggest you prioritize your spending, you too may then be able to enjoy your well EARNED retirement too. I apologise to those more understanding and less ignorant youngsters.
    Politics -
    from the words Poli, meaning many
    and tics meaning blood sucking parasites


    (thanks to Kinky Friedman (or Larry Hardman) for the quote}
    • Gareth56
    • By Gareth56 12th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    • 865 Posts
    • 1,120 Thanks
    Gareth56
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling......
    Originally posted by boatman
    Are they???? They appear to be doing better than working families!! I know they're always moaning but....

    Here
    Last edited by Gareth56; 12-03-2017 at 11:58 AM.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 12th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    • 59,243 Posts
    • 345,959 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    It's Sunday - I'm sure your mum/dad are at home.... why not phone them up and ask them why they ruined your life?
    • Sjc1973
    • By Sjc1973 12th Mar 17, 11:59 AM
    • 73 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    Sjc1973
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:59 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:59 AM
    I think the op post is a very generalised view about pensioners. I think the pensioners v younger generation debate is devisive aimed to polourise people. Being young does have its challenges in today's world, but it not a walk in the park for older people when they were growing up. it is not one age groups fault over another! This is a very simplistic way of looking at things !
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • 25,859 Posts
    • 32,595 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    Sorry but I am going to have a rant. Today several times under different headings and topics in and on the media, I have heard the statement " older people have had it too good, for too long. " I know older people who have retired and travel round the world, something I'll never be able to afford". And " why should youngsters supplement pensions for the elderly".
    Well at 67 let me tell these 'ignorant' young people, I and many others of my age left school at 15 and have worked, paid, and still paying my taxes, National insurance and paid into a private pension in readiness for my retirement. NO ONE SUPPLEMENTS me. I get out of the system the money I put into it. When I married at nineteen Until my second child was born I washed my washing in the bath tub, we didn't have a mobile phone each, we didn't have a car each, we didn't smoke, we didn't go out to nightclubs etc, we didn't have super Dooper buses that took our prams or pushchairs. You try getting on a bus with all your shopping, folding down a pushchair and holding onto a child in the other arm. We didn't go on holidays when the interest rates on houses was ll to 15% because we couldn't afford both. We bought a tiny property that we could afford, had second hand furniture while we worked to better ourselves, and we walked our kids to school because we couldn't afford a car. But through hard work and savings,( not buying all the materialistic stuff people seem to think its their right to have today) it provided us with a good retirement that we are enjoying now. Our pension IS NOT A BENEFIT its money paid out to us that has been paid in by us. Those youngsters that keep moaning about how hard it is today, I suggest you prioritize your spending, you too may then be able to enjoy your well EARNED retirement too. I apologise to those more understanding and less ignorant youngsters.
    Originally posted by martinthebandit
    I thanked you, not just for the post but the accurate signature.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • fussypensioner
    • By fussypensioner 12th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • 2,508 Posts
    • 5,582 Thanks
    fussypensioner
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
    Originally posted by boatman
    Look on the bright side, you might inherit all their "wealth" when they die without having to work for it.

    Just remember the half a million pound house was bought for £250,000 thirty years ago.

    You need an object lesson in social history to make such sweeping statements.
    Holding back the years...
    • Vicky123
    • By Vicky123 12th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    • 2,788 Posts
    • 8,583 Thanks
    Vicky123
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    I think they may just have been born in better times ie more employment opportunity's, less competition from globalisation. My parents befitted from the housing boom which they didn't foresee but very fortunate just the same.
    On the other hand they didn't have all the state help available today, they didn't have all the conveniences of modern living, they had higher interest rates which absorbed much of their wages and many are having to pay for care out of the property that gave them their biggest gain.
    Those who had the foresight to pay into a private pension and were home owners did the best but I would guess many thought the SP was secure and in any case they probably didn't expect to live as much as 20-25 yrs after retirement.
    • Gareth56
    • By Gareth56 12th Mar 17, 12:13 PM
    • 865 Posts
    • 1,120 Thanks
    Gareth56
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:13 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:13 PM
    Look on the bright side, you might inherit all their "wealth" when they die without having to work for it.

    Just remember the half a million pound house was bought for £250,000 thirty years ago.

    You need an object lesson in social history to make such sweeping statements.
    Originally posted by fussypensioner
    Just make sure you don't have to apply for probate though the fees have shot up courtesy of the tories.

    Here
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Mar 17, 12:14 PM
    • 25,859 Posts
    • 32,595 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    The OP might like to read this piece
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/20/older-person-dying-winter-fuel-poverty
    Granted 2016 but not much has changed.
    “"The UK has an appalling record on cold-related deaths, with one older person dying every seven minutes from the winter cold.""
    Glad that the retirement age is going up,then the half of the population which did not start work till 21 or later can actually pay in their full rate of NI to get their pension.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 12th Mar 17, 12:16 PM
    • 22,920 Posts
    • 47,652 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
    Originally posted by boatman
    What is the point of complaining?

    Its far better to spend your energy on playing with the hand you've been dealt than wringing your hands about something beyond your control.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    • 25,859 Posts
    • 32,595 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    I think they may just have been born in better times
    Originally posted by Vicky123
    Not necessarily for those born 46-56, times were in some ways harder than before the war. At least we got to play on bomb sites.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • always_sunny
    • By always_sunny 12th Mar 17, 12:22 PM
    • 3,135 Posts
    • 3,325 Thanks
    always_sunny
    It's Sunday - I'm sure your mum/dad are at home.... why not phone them up and ask them why they ruined your life?
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    Is that before or after mum/dad are going to tell their youngster that they're lazy, picky, spend too much money and they're the only reason why they can't find a job and buy a home?

    A pensioners (say someone aged 70 or so) should be able to tell tell how much they contributed to in NI; roughly cause records are a bit flakey back then. Now, modern times I can log on HMRC and see the exact amount.

    If in 1980 the average salary in the UK was ££6,000 (the equivalent of about £19,000 today) and their NI at that time, their contribution to their now SP was £1k~ for the year and even compounded at high interests, it's less than the most SP some can get of £119.30/week today (£6k); imagine if SP was the equivalent of money paid in those days?
    Tax paid was to support other needs of the country, assuming that they enjoyed street lights, roads, health care, etc

    Maybe some of the pensioners can give us an honest breakdown with what they roughly paid in and received to date and likely to receive based on life expectancy.
    I remember having a similar conversation at home and it took my mum a week to come back to me and realise that really, she is taking out more than what she put in.

    With that said, I don't believe it's baby boomers fault, it was a different world back then and it's no wonder why that arrangement couldn't continue.
    Expat with an EU passport
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 12th Mar 17, 12:25 PM
    • 22,920 Posts
    • 47,652 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    A pensioners (say someone aged 70 or so) should be able to tell tell how much they contributed to in NI; roughly cause records are a bit flakey back then. Now, modern times I can log on HMRC and see the exact amount.
    Originally posted by always_sunny
    Frankly if I were 70 and drawing a pension I wouldn't give two hoots.

    The entitlement gene would have been activated by then. But then I'm not Lord Sugar.
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • Running Horse
    • By Running Horse 12th Mar 17, 12:29 PM
    • 10,653 Posts
    • 19,839 Thanks
    Running Horse
    Pensioners vote. They also, mostly, worked hard all their lives, often with very few educational opportunities. Did I mention they also vote?
    The people have spoken, Parliament has voted, we are leaving the EU.
    • always_sunny
    • By always_sunny 12th Mar 17, 12:33 PM
    • 3,135 Posts
    • 3,325 Thanks
    always_sunny
    Frankly if I were 70 and drawing a pension I wouldn't give two hoots.

    The entitlement gene would have been activated by then. But then I'm not Lord Sugar.
    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    Absolutely and as "Running Horse" says, pensioners are a large voting group.
    So it is a mess!
    Expat with an EU passport
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 12th Mar 17, 12:36 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
    • 1,145 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    Well at 67 let me tell these 'ignorant' young people, I and many others of my age left school at 15 and have worked, paid, and still paying my taxes, National insurance and paid into a private pension in readiness for my retirement. NO ONE SUPPLEMENTS me. I get out of the system the money I put into it. When I married at nineteen Until my second child was born I washed my washing in the bath tub, we didn't have a mobile phone each, we didn't have a car each, we didn't smoke, we didn't go out to nightclubs etc, we didn't have super Dooper buses that took our prams or pushchairs. You try getting on a bus with all your shopping, folding down a pushchair and holding onto a child in the other arm. We didn't go on holidays when the interest rates on houses was ll to 15% because we couldn't afford both. We bought a tiny property that we could afford, had second hand furniture while we worked to better ourselves, and we walked our kids to school because we couldn't afford a car. But through hard work and savings,( not buying all the materialistic stuff people seem to think its their right to have today) it provided us with a good retirement that we are enjoying now. Our pension IS NOT A BENEFIT its money paid out to us that has been paid in by us. Those youngsters that keep moaning about how hard it is today, I suggest you prioritize your spending, you too may then be able to enjoy your well EARNED retirement too. I apologise to those more understanding and less ignorant youngsters.
    Originally posted by martinthebandit
    Whilst the question I am about to ask is probably going to start world war 3, I think it has to be asked.

    Did you actually do any sums when you were thinking about starting a family? It was your decision to have children, the financial hardship this caused was at least in part a direct result of a decision you made.
    • fussypensioner
    • By fussypensioner 12th Mar 17, 12:37 PM
    • 2,508 Posts
    • 5,582 Thanks
    fussypensioner
    There is an awful lot of stereotyping on this thread.

    Rather than criticising our offspring we have made every effort to help them if and when it was needed.
    Holding back the years...
    • VfM4meplse
    • By VfM4meplse 12th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    • 22,920 Posts
    • 47,652 Thanks
    VfM4meplse
    There is an awful lot of stereotyping on this thread.

    Rather than criticising our offspring we have made every effort to help them if and when it was needed.
    Originally posted by fussypensioner
    If only we could accurately predict it 7 years before we pop our clogs!

    Life's soooo unfair
    Value-for-money-for-me-puhleeze!

    "No man is worth, crawling on the earth"- adapted from Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio

    Hope is not a strategy ...A child is for life, not just 18 years....Don't get me started on the NHS, because you won't win...If in doubt, don't pull out... I love chaz-ing!
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 12th Mar 17, 12:40 PM
    • 8,955 Posts
    • 16,129 Thanks
    Pennywise
    My parents befitted from the housing boom which they didn't foresee but very fortunate just the same.
    Originally posted by Vicky123
    And a lot of homeowners also made huge windfall profits from their endowment policies which often not only paid off the mortgage but also often paid out as much, or more, again.

    Then the double whammy that they also benefitted from the demutualisation of the bank/building society/insurance firm which left them with a few thousand pounds of shares just because they luckily happened to have their mortgage and/or endowment with a firm that demutualised/listed on the stock exchange.

    That's another two factors that gave lucky windfalls to the current pensioner generation - nothing to do with how hard they worked or how poor their parents were or how they had no gadgets. Just pure luck at being born at the right time and riding the property inflation wagon at the right time. Things that are simply no longer available to current younger generation.
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