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  • FIRST POST
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 10th Mar 17, 3:51 PM
    • 7,236Posts
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    dori2o
    Personal tax account
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:51 PM
    Personal tax account 10th Mar 17 at 3:51 PM
    Quick questions people.

    Do you use the personal tax account?

    What do you think about the personal tax account?

    If someone was to develop a flyer/handout for the Personal Tax Account either to promote its use or to provide assistance with its use what would you like to see on it/what should be included on it?


    Thanks
    To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
Page 1
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 10th Mar 17, 4:22 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    badmemory
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 4:22 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 4:22 PM
    Are HMRC still using foreign companies (ie CRAs) to authenticate people before they can get access? I can't see anything on the website which would prove that I am me, if you see what I mean.

    ETA Sorry that sounds a bit confrontational, whoops! What I would like to see on the website or wherever is some practical information on how it is done other than "start here". For instance if they send a 6 digit number to your mobile like they do for VAT, that would not work as the signal can be so bad it can take a couple of hours to get and texts to my landline are very difficult for me to hear. So I wouldn't want to get started in case I couldn't proceed.
    Last edited by badmemory; 10-03-2017 at 4:35 PM.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Mar 17, 5:07 PM
    • 1,375 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 5:07 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 5:07 PM
    Do you mean what should be included on the flyer or included on the personal tax account itself?
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 10th Mar 17, 8:44 PM
    • 7,236 Posts
    • 12,078 Thanks
    dori2o
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 8:44 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 8:44 PM
    Are HMRC still using foreign companies (ie CRAs) to authenticate people before they can get access? I can't see anything on the website which would prove that I am me, if you see what I mean.

    ETA Sorry that sounds a bit confrontational, whoops! What I would like to see on the website or wherever is some practical information on how it is done other than "start here". For instance if they send a 6 digit number to your mobile like they do for VAT, that would not work as the signal can be so bad it can take a couple of hours to get and texts to my landline are very difficult for me to hear. So I wouldn't want to get started in case I couldn't proceed.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    The tax account now has 2 seperate methods of verification. You can still use Gov.UK Verify which uses 3rd party companies to verify your identity such as Experian and the Post Office.

    The preferred method however is built into the tax account. It utilises information that is held on your own tax/tax credits records to ask questions to verify yourself. This is done by providing information from your recent payslips, your P60, or your latest tax credits award if you have one. It can also verify you by using a valid UK passport.

    The system uses the same 2 step verification/log in process that the VAT service does, it sends a 6 digit access code to the mobile/landline telephone number you provide when registering for the system.

    Do you mean what should be included on the flyer or included on the personal tax account itself?
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    What would you expect/hope to see on a leaflet which is encouraging people to register/sign up for an account.

    Its not that those involved dont know what to include, but often people who work closely with a system can overlook things or misunderstand peoples needs.
    To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 10th Mar 17, 9:44 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 448 Thanks
    badmemory
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 9:44 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 9:44 PM
    The tax account now has 2 seperate methods of verification. You can still use Gov.UK Verify which uses 3rd party companies to verify your identity such as Experian and the Post Office.

    The preferred method however is built into the tax account. It utilises information that is held on your own tax/tax credits records to ask questions to verify yourself. This is done by providing information from your recent payslips, your P60, or your latest tax credits award if you have one. It can also verify you by using a valid UK passport.

    The system uses the same 2 step verification/log in process that the VAT service does, it sends a 6 digit access code to the mobile/landline telephone number you provide when registering for the system.
    Originally posted by dori2o
    I'm pleased that it is possible not to have to use external sites to verify although I would have trouble with the access code. This is the info I would like to see more readily available. So I would be looking at something along the lines of - these are the sorts of things you will be able to do & see - & this is what you will need to do to do that. A lot of people who may be interested may be scared off by the unknown and worried about getting it wrong - after all it can have serious financial consequences. This is why I don't file my SA online, I like to be able to see it.
    • booksurr
    • By booksurr 10th Mar 17, 10:40 PM
    • 3,614 Posts
    • 3,993 Thanks
    booksurr
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 10:40 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 10:40 PM
    i am only aware of the existence of this "service" due to posts on here. It is not something I am aware of having consciously registered for and therefore I assume I have not.

    I submit my SA online and, at this point in time, would not know where to find my personal tax account, nor what information it provides which is of any relevance to me given I know what I have submitted "my tax account" via SA.

    If it is simply a record of how "my" tax has been spent, then it is of the same level of "usefulness" as the tax summary received in the post. There was a military expression for that: "Army Form A, Blank" (aka toilet paper) as that was the contribution to society generated by such bumpf. It keeps a few clerks in work, but achieves nothing else?

    I will now go and research what this form is, and will post back on my further thoughts
    Last edited by booksurr; 10-03-2017 at 10:42 PM.
    • teuchter66
    • By teuchter66 10th Mar 17, 11:14 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    teuchter66
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:14 PM
    Personal Tax Account
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:14 PM
    I've ben using mine since the service started and find it extremely useful.


    I set mine up using the old Gov.uk verification which was a bit cumbersome but have helped a number of relatives set up theirs just using payslip data and they found it a very simple exercise.


    I've never had a problem with the code to my mobile, it has always been instantaneous.


    I am no longer required to fill in a Self Assessment but as far as I know the SA Return is completely separate from the Personal Tax Account.


    My affairs are not particularly arduous but I do have 4 separate pensions in payment and I use the account mainly to check the tax codes provided to pensions providers.
    As an example I recently used the account to amend the estimated sums I would receive in 2017/18 which resulted in HMRC adjusting my tax codes and their estimate of my total taxable earning and tax due thereon.
    This is an exercise I have undertaken before the start of every tax year since I retired and would normally have required a long telephone call with a short chat after I got through to a human voice.


    The PTA gives me all the detail I need about all my taxable income and tax paid on a monthly basis; and, although I no longer require it, a year by year breakdown of my National Insurance contribution record.


    I find the account extremely useful and would recommend it to everyone who is in the PAYE system.
    Although I must admit I have perhaps been lucky never having had any problems in my dealings with HRMC in the past, I think the Personal Tax Account is a great step forward in the use of technology.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Mar 17, 11:17 PM
    • 1,375 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:17 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:17 PM
    booksurr

    It is great for checking your national insurance record along with what state pension you are going to be entitled to and when it will be paid.

    Haven't used it as much for tax stuff but from memory you can see how your tax code is made up and it has details of what your employer has paid you
    Last edited by Dazed and confused; 10-03-2017 at 11:20 PM.
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 12th Mar 17, 10:42 AM
    • 7,236 Posts
    • 12,078 Thanks
    dori2o
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 17, 10:42 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 17, 10:42 AM
    Just to add, with regards to receiving the access code, for those with poor mobile reception or who only have a tablet and not a mobile phone, you can also get past the access code issue by using a 3rd option. That is to use a QR code reader (those square barcode type things).

    To do this you would need to download a 3rd party QR code reader onto your device. HMRC do not provide or recommend any particular app.

    This would mean that those who have access to wireless internet but limited phone reception, and who are accessing the tax account by way of an Apple or Android device would still be able to log in to the tax account.

    One further thing to be aware of is that the tax account sents a data burst to your tax records each time you log out/are timed out of the personal tax account.

    This means that if there are any updates that need to be made you should always make them via the tax account where it is possible to do so rather than contacting HMRC to do it. If you were to contact HMRC seperately on the same day you had logged into the tax account and have not updated the tax account yourself, then it is possible that the data burst sent by the tax account would reverse the changes you had made with HMRC over the phone, reverting your records back to holding the original incorrect data.
    To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
    • Cook_County
    • By Cook_County 12th Mar 17, 11:18 AM
    • 2,880 Posts
    • 2,066 Thanks
    Cook_County
    Professional advisers are currently forbidden from accessing the PTA - so it is still only a half-cooked measure; which will be even more important when we move to MTD.
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 12th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    • 7,236 Posts
    • 12,078 Thanks
    dori2o
    There is an Agents tax account still in development. Whether this is a stand alone service or whether its a bolt on to the pta remains to be seen.

    The agents still have the ability to submit tax returns via the agent portal which gives them access to the self assessment record, statements, SA302's etc. This wont change when the move to the new process is made.

    The PTA is for individuals to take charge of their own tax affairs, just as it should be, given they are responsible for ensuring they pay the correct tax.
    To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
    • MichelleUK
    • By MichelleUK 12th Mar 17, 1:42 PM
    • 263 Posts
    • 167 Thanks
    MichelleUK
    I have used the account to update company car details, and a new tax code for 2016/17 was generated the next day.... very impressed! What is not so impressive, is that they have ignored it for the provisional 2017/18 tax code and upon querying it, HMRC wrote back, by snail mail, saying that they need a P46(car) from the employer (another long story...) I am not sure why they accepted it for one year but not the next, and why mail and not use the message system?

    Also, it would be very handy to be able to update the pension contribution relief and gift aid payments, rather than having to contact HMRC by phone or letter (something I try to avoid at all costs.....much prefer being able to enter my own information rather than hoping that HMRC can interpret what needs to be done from a letter or telephone conversation).

    I like the tax account, but as an accountant, I probably find it easier to use than someone with less tax knowledge.
    • dori2o
    • By dori2o 12th Mar 17, 3:47 PM
    • 7,236 Posts
    • 12,078 Thanks
    dori2o
    I have used the account to update company car details, and a new tax code for 2016/17 was generated the next day.... very impressed! What is not so impressive, is that they have ignored it for the provisional 2017/18 tax code and upon querying it, HMRC wrote back, by snail mail, saying that they need a P46(car) from the employer (another long story...) I am not sure why they accepted it for one year but not the next, and why mail and not use the message system?

    Also, it would be very handy to be able to update the pension contribution relief and gift aid payments, rather than having to contact HMRC by phone or letter (something I try to avoid at all costs.....much prefer being able to enter my own information rather than hoping that HMRC can interpret what needs to be done from a letter or telephone conversation).

    I like the tax account, but as an accountant, I probably find it easier to use than someone with less tax knowledge.
    Originally posted by MichelleUK
    The reason for the issue with company cars is that it only updated the PAYE service, it doesn't update the system HMRC use to store P11D information, therefore when a new tax code is issued for the next tax year it is based on what is held on the system where P11D info is held.

    I doubt that this will now be updated as from April 2018 all company cars will be dealt with via payroll rather than deductions to tax codes.

    Currently the messaging service is not planned to be used as a replacement for letters as there are still some doubts surrounding the security of customer correspondence.

    More services are being added to the tax account all the time. It's a work in progress. Considering it was only released almost 12 months ago the development rate has been very high. There have been and are issues which are being resolved all the time, and once the build is stable there will be new services added.
    To equate judgement and wisdom with occupation is at best . . . insulting.
    • MichelleUK
    • By MichelleUK 6th Apr 17, 1:39 PM
    • 263 Posts
    • 167 Thanks
    MichelleUK
    The reason for the issue with company cars is that it only updated the PAYE service, it doesn't update the system HMRC use to store P11D information, therefore when a new tax code is issued for the next tax year it is based on what is held on the system where P11D info is held.

    I doubt that this will now be updated as from April 2018 all company cars will be dealt with via payroll rather than deductions to tax codes.

    Currently the messaging service is not planned to be used as a replacement for letters as there are still some doubts surrounding the security of customer correspondence.

    More services are being added to the tax account all the time. It's a work in progress. Considering it was only released almost 12 months ago the development rate has been very high. There have been and are issues which are being resolved all the time, and once the build is stable there will be new services added.
    Originally posted by dori2o
    Thanks dori20, can I ask a bit more of your insider knowledge?

    I have today, being a new tax year, been able to access some more detail behind the car benefit calculation. It shows as having two cars held at the same time but oddly, the calculations for car and fuel benefit do not make any sense at all if compared to the HMRC online benefit calculator. I have amended the car that was given back in 2016 and this has now been removed from the tax code. Unfortunately the remaining car is still showing the incorrect benefit charges even though all of the details about co2 and costs etc. are correct.

    Is there a known fault in the personal account concerning the car benefit calculations or will there be some behind the scenes processing that will correct the code? Thanks for any help!
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