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  • FIRST POST
    • Green3
    • By Green3 19th Feb 17, 8:06 PM
    • 58Posts
    • 17Thanks
    Green3
    Smart meter and solar panels
    • #1
    • 19th Feb 17, 8:06 PM
    Smart meter and solar panels 19th Feb 17 at 8:06 PM
    Can smart meters be installed in properties with solar panels? Will the generation meter of the solar panels remain as it is and will we continue to send readings for Feed in tariff every 3 months? Has anyone with solar panels got smart meters installed by Scottish Power?
Page 1
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 19th Feb 17, 9:11 PM
    • 2,626 Posts
    • 1,587 Thanks
    Ectophile
    • #2
    • 19th Feb 17, 9:11 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Feb 17, 9:11 PM
    Yes, Yes, and I wouldn't know (I'm with EDF).
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • EricMears
    • By EricMears 19th Feb 17, 11:42 PM
    • 2,240 Posts
    • 3,936 Thanks
    EricMears
    • #3
    • 19th Feb 17, 11:42 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Feb 17, 11:42 PM
    Do you really want a smart meter ? They're not compulsory (yet) and offer no advantage over the sort of monitoring equipment many SP owners already have.

    If you do have one, you may not be able to access the data that the meter provider collects or if you can access it, it may not be in a form that you find useful.

    There's no common standard for the things so as long as you don't get one fitted by the company that are paying your FIT its export readings can't be used to pay the export part of the FIT scheme.

    The only real advantage that smart metering offers is the ability of your supplier to use them for remote disconnection which you may not feel is any great advantage to the customer.
    N Derbyshire.
    4kwp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 20th Feb 17, 11:10 PM
    • 2,626 Posts
    • 1,587 Thanks
    Ectophile
    • #4
    • 20th Feb 17, 11:10 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Feb 17, 11:10 PM
    So far, I've turned down all EDF's attempts to fit me a 1st generation smart meter.

    As EricMears says, it offers a method for your supplier to shut you off if you don't pay, but does not provide any way to disconnect your own supply for maintenance (but it can snitch to your energy company if a naughty electrician just pulls the fuse - which they shouldn't really do, but do because the alternative is too much like hard work).

    Worse, EDF's rubbish meter has the ability to measure your export, but it's not tested or calibrated, which means that I still wouldn't get paid the correct amount for all my exported electricity. So much for "no more estimated bills".
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 21st Feb 17, 9:21 AM
    • 2,666 Posts
    • 970 Thanks
    NigeWick
    • #5
    • 21st Feb 17, 9:21 AM
    • #5
    • 21st Feb 17, 9:21 AM
    Ovo offered to fit me a smart meter "for free" and I accepted. Bloke arrived, had a look and said he could not fit it because it only had four input points and the current one has five. But, I could pay an electrician to sort it if I wanted. I decided against that option and keep sending readings every month.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • pinnks
    • By pinnks 7th Jul 17, 2:37 PM
    • 475 Posts
    • 1,090 Thanks
    pinnks
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 2:37 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 17, 2:37 PM
    Thought I would reinvigorate this thread to see if we can get to the bottom of the smart meter "black box". Perhaps the likes of Malc from E.On or other supplier reps would care to give us the low-down.

    As far as I can see there is no benefit to having a smart meter at all. All they seem to do is provide automatic meter reads - wow, that would save me at least 5 minutes every 3 months! They also provide real-time use figures but many people who would pay any attention to them have probably already bought something like the Owl or immerSUN or whatever they are all called.

    So, what benefit is there to having a smart meter (hopefully someone can come up with something other than the hype in the media)?

    Do they "work" with PV to give you import/export etc data (needs two CT clamps I think)?

    What is the impact on export data. Some FiT providers seem to say you must use the export figures from the smart meter; other say you cannot. Why is there no consistency?

    And, what is the benefit in real terms of holding out as long as possible for later models/standards etc?

    I think I know what some of the answers are but it would be good to have in one place - and who knows, Mart may then be able to update FAQ 4c
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
    • EricMears
    • By EricMears 7th Jul 17, 4:53 PM
    • 2,240 Posts
    • 3,936 Thanks
    EricMears
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:53 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 17, 4:53 PM
    As far as I can see, the only benefit to a smart meter is that it can be used to remotely disconnect a property. If at some time in the future, a supplier offers a tariff with a discount for being at risk of remote disconnection, that might be considered a benefit to the consumer; otherwise, the only benefit is to the supplying organisation.

    Some smart meters include an option to see what is going on via a local display unit; some don't. But in any case you can get a better idea from fitting your own unit,
    N Derbyshire.
    4kwp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 7th Jul 17, 5:33 PM
    • 5,573 Posts
    • 9,580 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:33 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 17, 5:33 PM
    I think I know what some of the answers are but it would be good to have in one place - and who knows, Mart may then be able to update FAQ 4c
    Originally posted by pinnks
    Oi Reservoir Dog wanna be, I'll have you know that 4c was only added in June, and is as thoroughly detailed as is possible ..... I think.

    I haven't got all day every day just to play around on the forums, well actually I have, but that's not the point.

    Joking aside, I can't get my head around how there can be any kind of rollout, till someone decides on exactly what they must do, and standardises the kit. Till then it all seems a bit silly.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • pinnks
    • By pinnks 7th Jul 17, 6:06 PM
    • 475 Posts
    • 1,090 Thanks
    pinnks
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 17, 6:06 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 17, 6:06 PM
    Well that worked Actually, I only added the FAQ and then looked and found 4c just before I posted - didn't want you coming back pointing me at the FAQ

    Interestingly Malc from E.On has just posted something quite interesting about where his firm is with smart (not) meters.
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 7th Jul 17, 6:21 PM
    • 5,573 Posts
    • 9,580 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Well that worked Actually, I only added the FAQ and then looked and found 4c just before I posted - didn't want you coming back pointing me at the FAQ

    Interestingly Malc from E.On has just posted something quite interesting about where his firm is with smart (not) meters.
    Originally posted by pinnks
    I was quite pleased with 4c, it answered NacNac's request for a FAQ, whilst saying absolutely nothing, I could have been a contender politician.

    Yep I saw Malc's comment after I posted my silliness earlier. Seems that PV and smart meters (and export) is still as clear as mud.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters and FIT
    Thought I would reinvigorate this thread to see if we can get to the bottom of the smart meter "black box". Perhaps the likes of Malc from E.On or other supplier reps would care to give us the low-down.

    As far as I can see there is no benefit to having a smart meter at all. All they seem to do is provide automatic meter reads - wow, that would save me at least 5 minutes every 3 months! They also provide real-time use figures but many people who would pay any attention to them have probably already bought something like the Owl or immerSUN or whatever they are all called.

    So, what benefit is there to having a smart meter (hopefully someone can come up with something other than the hype in the media)?

    Do they "work" with PV to give you import/export etc data (needs two CT clamps I think)?

    What is the impact on export data. Some FiT providers seem to say you must use the export figures from the smart meter; other say you cannot. Why is there no consistency?

    And, what is the benefit in real terms of holding out as long as possible for later models/standards etc?

    I think I know what some of the answers are but it would be good to have in one place - and who knows, Mart may then be able to update FAQ 4c
    Originally posted by pinnks
    Well that worked Actually, I only added the FAQ and then looked and found 4c just before I posted - didn't want you coming back pointing me at the FAQ

    Interestingly Malc from E.On has just posted something quite interesting about where his firm is with smart (not) meters.
    Originally posted by pinnks
    Sorry for the late reply pinnks but been away recently. I've just popped a few comments on the other thread you mention. It's at the link below.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72860118#post72860118

    Hope it's of interest.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 19th Jul 17, 5:55 PM
    • 3,592 Posts
    • 4,429 Thanks
    zeupater
    Sorry for the late reply pinnks but been away recently. I've just popped a few comments on the other thread you mention. It's at the link below.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72860118#post72860118

    Hope it's of interest.

    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Hi

    As is my follow-up question ...
    Hi Malc

    Does this mean that the meters which you've installed to date and their associated IHDs don't comply to SMETS1 or SMETS2 standards regarding the provision of registers, or is it a case that functionality exists but simply not going to be used ?

    If the former, then the question revolves around why non-compliant meters are being installed ... if the latter, then isn't it a case that the company will not be complying with various EU legislation of 2009 & 2012 which substantially forms case for smart-metering? .... background information related to this is summarised in the following link ...

    https://vriconian.wixsite.com/site/single-post/2017/07/14/Smart-Metering---1-Introduction-Whats-it-all-about-

    There is a third possible reason, that being the DCC being later than anticipated in delivering shared communications and therefore what you describe results from not wanting to duplicate cost (and therefore waste) in developing a temporary comms network to handle export readings, in which case it's just a temporary situation ....

    Any chance of doing a little digging internally on this and provide us with a little feedback ?

    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 19-07-2017 at 9:08 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 20th Jul 17, 8:05 AM
    • 921 Posts
    • 1,255 Thanks
    fredandwilma
    Sorry for the late reply pinnks but been away recently.

    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc

    There's me thinking you'd been sacked?

    Or have they let you out for good behaviour?

    Anyone for cricket?
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
    • pinnks
    • By pinnks 20th Jul 17, 5:33 PM
    • 475 Posts
    • 1,090 Thanks
    pinnks
    Thanks Malc
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Hi

    As is my follow-up question ...


    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Just replied on the other thread Z. It's at the following link.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72870152#post72870152

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Rep Malc
    There's me thinking you'd been sacked?

    Or have they let you out for good behaviour?

    Anyone for cricket?
    Originally posted by fredandwilma
    I doubt it's good behaviour fredandwilma. They do occasionally give me time off to relax provided I work twice as hard when I come back.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Thanks Malc
    Originally posted by pinnks
    You're welcome pinnks. Glad to help.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • matty2767
    • By matty2767 23rd Jul 17, 5:09 PM
    • 415 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    matty2767
    when i was offered mine it was a gen 1 smart meter. I understand that these might not be compatible with your next supplier should you switch and you would be back to a dumb meter. you need a gen 2 meter if you are having one at all
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