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    • ipri
    • By ipri 15th Oct 16, 2:12 PM
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    ipri
    Will new S Pension cause resentment?
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:12 PM
    Will new S Pension cause resentment? 15th Oct 16 at 2:12 PM
    Will people who get the new SP not be a source of resentment from those who , if I'm correct, will receive less?
Page 1
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 15th Oct 16, 2:32 PM
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    zagfles
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:32 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:32 PM
    Will people who get the new SP not be a source of resentment from those who , if I'm correct, will receive less?
    Originally posted by ipri
    Who are you thinking about? The answer is yes it will and has already - including several threads here in MSE. But ironically it seems those who complain the loudest seem to be the utterly clueless who don't understand the changes and who think they're losing out but in fact aren't!

    For instance there seems to be a lot of ignorance that the new state pension replaces both the old basic state pension and the SERPS/S2P earnings related element. For most people the old system was more generous.

    Then there are those who don't understand that their company pension was contracted out of SERPS/S2P and so part of their company pension was paid for by NI rebates, and that together with the basic SP gives more than the new state pension.

    There are some groups who are much better off with the new state pension, for instance the self employed. Also those who have been contracted out and have 5-10 years more to work do pretty well. But it's likely that most people who retire under the new state pension will get less than they would have if the old system had carried on.
    • ipri
    • By ipri 15th Oct 16, 2:53 PM
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    ipri
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:53 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:53 PM
    Thanks...just to be clear, I'm interested, not complaining. Example. I started work aged 15...worked till 60. Now get old pension. Best friend came to England mid 70's ( mid 20's) worked till 58.( Retired early). He now gets new pension...has many years less contributions than me...but qualifies because cont. period has been lowered.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 15th Oct 16, 2:59 PM
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    zagfles
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:59 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:59 PM
    Thanks...just to be clear, I'm interested, not complaining. Example. I started work aged 15...worked till 60. Now get old pension. Best friend came to England mid 70's ( mid 20's) worked till 58.( Retired early). He now gets new pension...has many years less contributions than me...but qualifies because cont. period has been lowered.
    Originally posted by ipri
    Yes but who gets more (taking into account SERPS/S2P/any contracted out employer/private pension)?

    The contribution period for the old basic state pension was lowered in 2010 to 30 years. That was under the old system. Did you reach state pension age before then?
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 15th Oct 16, 3:06 PM
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    Silvertabby
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 3:06 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 3:06 PM
    I knew about the contracted out deductions right from the start, because I've never been one to just read the newspaper headlines.

    I am comfortably retired (at 60) due to my contracted out occupational pensions. If I don't pay voluntary NI, I expect my State pension at 66 will be in the region of £120 per week.

    Do I resent that I won't get the full £155 per week? Not at all. I know some people are saying that they would have been better off not joining their employer's pension scheme, as they would get the full £155 per week, but that's just ridiculous. Just who's the better off - someone retiring at 60 with a £120 top up at 66, or someone who has to work until 66 and then have to live on just £155 per week?
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 15-10-2016 at 5:56 PM. Reason: add
    • ipri
    • By ipri 15th Oct 16, 4:18 PM
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    ipri
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:18 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:18 PM
    Rtrd May 2010....NHS
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 15th Oct 16, 4:21 PM
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    dunstonh
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:21 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:21 PM
    The state pensions have been reduced about 5 times over the last 3 decades. The qualification has changed as well. There is no point being resentful of other generations. We have things they dont and vice versa.

    People who are 60 today have similar health to those that were 40 in the 1970s. They are likely to be paid their state pension much longer than those in the past, even though the state pensions used to be higher (on full qualification).
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 15th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
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    molerat
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    Yep. Someone receiving the old £260 a week will be resentful of someone receiving £155 .......... maybe not
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 15th Oct 16, 4:42 PM
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    bowlhead99
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:42 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:42 PM
    Will people who get the new SP not be a source of resentment from those who , if I'm correct, will receive less?
    Originally posted by ipri
    Generalising, all pensions (state or workplace), welfare benefits, salaries, asset price rises etc etc, are potentially a source of resentment from those who will receive less. That happens if people are envious and resent what they don't have for themselves, and it is a personality trait which is held by many.

    My dad has the state pension for those reaching the requisite age pre April 2016. I will get the one for those reaching the age after April 2016 and it may change again before I get there (currently slated for age 67, while Dad was at 65 and Mum at 60).

    If I was allowed to retire under the old rules I would have had a bigger pension than under the new rules because under the new rules I won't be able to get more than £155ish (in current year terms) even if I have 50+ years of non-contracted-out contributions, while under the old rules I would have been able to get to £200 plus.

    Will my Dad be resentful of me for being landed with a deal that only allows me to get a smaller amount of money from the state per week than he was allowed to get, and from a later age? Seems pretty unlikely that he would resent me getting that deal, because I'm getting less. Maybe he will instead be resentful that I might get to live longer than him because of improving healthcare and longevity through the generations. Should I take action to worsen my health to make sure I don't?

    Probably we are better as a society if we don't resent what others have. Instead focus on making the best of what we have and helping others rather than being envious of others.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 15th Oct 16, 5:15 PM
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    zagfles
    Rtrd May 2010....NHS
    Originally posted by ipri
    If that's when you reached SPA then you only needed 30 years for a full basic state pension (old rules) at that time. It changed in April 2010.

    The NHS pension was contracted out so instead of SERPS/S2P you'd have got the equivalent as part of your NHS pension paid for by NI rebates. This element of the NHS pension would almost certainly be more than the difference between the full new state pension and the old basic state pension.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 15th Oct 16, 5:56 PM
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    dunstonh
    Rtrd May 2010....NHS
    Why would you be resentful of those retiring under the new scheme? You had a shorter qualification period and your NHS pension is superior to the one that new entrants get. Plus, you paid lower class 1 NI over your working life.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
    • ipri
    • By ipri 15th Oct 16, 8:07 PM
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    ipri
    Thanks to all...Look at the original post .....I'm not resentful. I'm quite happy with my income / lifestyle. I really was just interested in the question I posed. I understand the generational thing....I was talking about people of similar ages, but for different reasons, were getting different pensions ...In my case, my friend ( still) , has many years less qualifying years than me, retired at 58! I imagine there will be a few fallouts over the issue. Anyway, thanks..lets go and have a drink. Smiley face if I could find it!!
    • ipri
    • By ipri 15th Oct 16, 8:12 PM
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    ipri
    PPS...Dunstonh...my mate had less years than me, by far...and retired early, and now a better state pension. He's only 1yr younger than me.
    Last edited by ipri; 15-10-2016 at 8:30 PM.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 15th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
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    zagfles
    Thanks to all...Look at the original post .....I'm not resentful. I'm quite happy with my income / lifestyle. I really was just interested in the question I posed. I understand the generational thing....I was talking about people of similar ages, but for different reasons, were getting different pensions ...In my case, my friend ( still) , has many years less qualifying years than me, retired at 58! I imagine there will be a few fallouts over the issue. Anyway, thanks..lets go and have a drink. Smiley face if I could find it!!
    Originally posted by ipri
    Here is is But you seem to be missing the point - does he have a contracted out occupational pension like you? That is a replacement for part of the state pension. Your occ scheme pays it instead of the state.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 15th Oct 16, 10:34 PM
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    hyubh
    my mate had less years than me, by far...and retired early, and now a better state pension. He's only 1yr younger than me.
    Originally posted by ipri
    In which case, given what you've also said, he must have been contracted-in, paying the full rate of NI, and not benefiting from a very generous final salary scheme on top like yourself.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 15th Oct 16, 11:22 PM
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    p00hsticks
    In which case, given what you've also said, he must have been contracted-in, paying the full rate of NI, and not benefiting from a very generous final salary scheme on top like yourself.
    Originally posted by hyubh
    Or alternatively, he was contracted out and even though he's getting the 'new pension' he's' not getting the maximum £155.65.

    Going by the various comments on this board and other sources, a lot of the resentment from those on the 'old pension' comes from a mistaken belief that everyone getting the 'new pension' is getting £155.65 a week, which is far from true due to the transitional rules.
    • fredandwilma
    • By fredandwilma 16th Oct 16, 10:03 AM
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    fredandwilma
    Will people who get the new SP not be a source of resentment from those who , if I'm correct, will receive less?
    Originally posted by ipri
    For instance there seems to be a lot of ignorance that the new state pension replaces both the old basic state pension and the SERPS/S2P earnings related element. For most people the old system was more generous.
    Originally posted by zagfles

    People who are 60 today have similar health to those that were 40 in the 1970s. They are likely to be paid their state pension much longer than those in the past, even though the state pensions used to be higher (on full qualification).
    Originally posted by dunstonh

    There is always the exception to the rule. I'm still struggling to understand how the new rules will affect me, so I've finally requested a pension statement to see if this will clarify, (just out of interest.) I belong to the group of people who were hit the hardest by the last pension reforms.

    What i do know is :

    I've worked and contributed for 45 years

    I didn't contract out of SERPS (or second state pension)

    I can no longer retire for another 6 years, (collect my state pension)

    I currently receive half the amount of income i would if i were "officially" retired (fantastic government cost cutting exercise)

    I'm too ill to work and actually have the the health of someone in their 80's (but still have the stress of proving i'm too ill to work)

    I accept it's unlikely i will ever collect my state pension, in any case (i have life limiting illnesses)



    Like i said, there is always the exception to the rule.


    I would love to be in receipt of my state pension which would have been around the £276 a week stated.


    Am i resentful?


    I won't answer that question, but i could be in a far better financial situation than i am currently.





    http://www.which.co.uk/money/retirement/guides/state-pension-explained/state-second-pension-and-serps/


    How much state second pension do I get?
    The amount of state second pension you get is based on your earnings over the years that you have made National Insurance contributions.

    The maximum state second pension you could get in 2015/16 was around £160 a week. This was in addition to the maximum basic state pension of £115.95 in 2015/16, which could potentially take your total state pension to around £276 a week.
    Originally posted by fredandwilma
    yabba dabba don't
    • atush
    • By atush 16th Oct 16, 11:49 AM
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    atush
    I've worked and contributed for 45 years

    I didn't contract out of SERPS (or second state pension)
    If this is true, then when you get your forecast/statement you should see you will get in excess of the new state pension as anyone who has worked for that period of time, contracted in, should have quite a bit of S2p/Serps on top of the basic SP.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 16th Oct 16, 12:07 PM
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    xylophone
    I'm still struggling to understand how the new rules will affect me,
    Based on what you have said, you will be entitled to a full new state pension plus a "protected payment".

    https://www.prospect.org.uk/at-work/pensions-retirement/statepensions/howmuch
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 16th Oct 16, 1:07 PM
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    hyubh
    I belong to the group of people who were hit the hardest by the last pension reforms.

    <snip>

    I didn't contract out of SERPS (or second state pension)

    I can no longer retire for another 6 years, (collect my state pension)

    I currently receive half the amount of income i would if i were "officially" retired (fantastic government cost cutting exercise)
    Originally posted by fredandwilma
    Presumably you're Wilma rather than Fred? Unless I'm missing something, you seem to be claiming to be amongst the 'hardest hit' from stage pension age equalisation, rather than introduction of the single tier (as atush and xylophone say, it appears your entitlement is already over the new flat rate)...?
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