Transfer final salary pension to private pension

Options
I've just read an interesting article in todays Sunday Times about the value, or not, of transferring a final salary pension to a private pension provider on retirement.

It lists some of the advantages and disadvantages and I wondered if anyone knew where I could get some indicative values if I decided to transfer my final salary pension pot when I come to retire?

many thanks.
«13

Comments

  • jem16
    jem16 Posts: 19,398 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Photogenic
    Options
    iwblue wrote: »
    It lists some of the advantages and disadvantages and I wondered if anyone knew where I could get some indicative values if I decided to transfer my final salary pension pot when I come to retire?

    many thanks.

    99 times out of 100 it would be foolish to transfer a final salary pension. At the time though you would need an IFA to sign it off so if you actually find one who would be willing to do it, they would be able to provide figures.
  • ERICS_MUM
    ERICS_MUM Posts: 3,579 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    I'd think very carefully and get really authoritative advice before moving.

    I joined a final salary pension aged 18 and now retired it was the best thing I've ever done, and secured an excellent income for the rest of my life.
  • opinions4u
    opinions4u Posts: 19,411 Forumite
    Options
    I think this one sits alongside WG Grace's thoughts on winning the toss in cricket. For keeping the final salary scheme, see the word bat.
    When you win the toss – bat. If you are in doubt, think about it, then bat. If you have very big doubts, consult a colleague – then bat.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,389 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Options
    I've just read an interesting article in todays Sunday Times about the value, or not, of transferring a final salary pension to a private pension provider on retirement.

    I cant see it because of paywall but I'm surprised they wasted article space on it. As mentioned, the times it could be justifiable are about 1 in 100. Plus, it would always need an IFA to sign off on it first. Most IFAs will not sign off on it unless you fall under that 1 in 100.
    It lists some of the advantages and disadvantages

    Can you give some examples as we cant see the article. The only one that usually makes sense is death benefits. It will be interesting to see what others they have.
    where I could get some indicative values if I decided to transfer my final salary pension pot when I come to retire?

    That is when you employ the IFA. Typically costing you around £2500 to £5000 as its a very high risk transaction and then expect the IFA to tell you that its not worth it.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • iwblue
    iwblue Posts: 120 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Options
    What caught my eye was the information relating to the benefits I don't actually need with my final salary. Or specifically the widows pension,as I have no dependents. The article suggests that I could receive a better yearly pension if I forgo this particular benefit and receive an increased tax free payment of 25%.
  • Stargazer57
    Stargazer57 Posts: 187 Forumite
    Options
    iwblue wrote: »
    What caught my eye was the information relating to the benefits I don't actually need with my final salary. Or specifically the widows pension,as I have no dependents. The article suggests that I could receive a better yearly pension if I forgo this particular benefit and receive an increased tax free payment of 25%.

    If you could sell just your entitlement to a widows pension, I can see the attraction. However in order to sell this you also have to swap your expensive partially-indexed pension for a capital sum that even with the uplift from the widows pension is highly likely to produce an income that will fall short of your current pension.

    As Dunstonh says it will cost you plenty even to make this comparison.
  • iwblue
    iwblue Posts: 120 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Options
    I've always been led to believe final salary schemes were by far the best type of pension, and I still do. However the article raised some interesting points and I thought I'd just ask the question. I could of course be that 1 person in 100, but then again I haven't got £5000 to find that out!
  • worried_jim
    worried_jim Posts: 11,631 Forumite
    Combo Breaker First Post
    Options
    dunstonh wrote: »
    I cant see it because of paywall but I'm surprised they wasted article space on it.

    STAFF approaching retirement are being tempted with incentives designed to cut their employers’ pension bills that could leave someone with a £20,000 a year payout more than £240,000 worse off.

    Almost every large employer running a final salary pension scheme is looking at ways to reduce costs. There are 1.6m workers paying into final salary schemes in the private sector. Only 13% of schemes are still open to new members, according to the National Association of Pension Funds.

    Firms such as ITV and Boots are among those to have made offers to pensioners to buy out inflation-linked increases to their pensions. BT is also offering those at retirement the opportunity to swap pension upratings for a higher initial payout.

    Such a move might sound tempting to employees, but a period of higher-than-expected inflation could substantially reduce the value of their pension in real terms.

    The move can save companies a fortune. In its 2010 annual report, ITV disclosed that it had pocketed £38m from the exercise.

    Figures from Hymans Robertson, the pensions consultant, show that someone in a final salary scheme due £20,000 in retirement, who took a higher £26,000 payout in return for no annual increases, could be £240,000 worse off if inflation averaged 5% over the following 22 years.

    A code of practice was launched last year imposing restrictions on these types of pension incentive programmes after widespread criticism that workers were being encouraged to make poor decisions.

    The code, though, applies only to pensioners and to current or former employees. Those approaching, or at, retirement are exempt, making them an attractive target for employers.

    How workers are being targeted

    Workers nearing retirement in final salary schemes get a statement outlining what they will receive by way of pension. This paperwork also normally includes information about how much they can take as a tax-free lump sum, and how much their pension income will fall if they choose to take it.

    Increasingly, pre-retirees are being offered two further choices. The first outlines the range of options available if they take their pension pot elsewhere, transferring it out of the employer’s scheme. This would typically involve transferring it to a less generous scheme for a short-term gain.

    The second gives the terms available if they surrender all annual pension increases accrued before 1997, so their income will not keep pace with rising prices.

    Alistair Russell-Smith of Hymans Robertson, the pensions consultancy, said: “Most big companies are looking at ways to minimise pension liabilities. We expect renewed activity primarily targeting the at-retirement group.”

    Advisers said anyone approaching retirement should view such deals with extreme caution.

    Laith Khalaf of Hargreaves Lansdown, the adviser, said: “You have to ask yourself why the company is suddenly offering all these new alternatives. The starting point must always be that giving up a guaranteed, inflation-linked pension, providing security for a surviving spouse, is a bad idea.”

    Giving up inflation-linked increases

    The average life expectancy for a man retiring at 65 today is a further 22 years, by which time the buying power of any pension will have roughly halved if inflation averages 2.5%. For this reason, surrendering annual increases is a high-risk strategy.

    However, the chance to have a greater amount of ready cash in the early days of retirement can be attractive.

    For example, someone heading for a £20,000 a year escalating pension could swap that for an income of £26,000 that never goes up.

    This would prove a smart move in the event that inflation remains lower than currently expected — say 1%, rather than 2.5%, for the next 22 years. In that case, the pensioner would be £80,000 better off over the course of retirement. If death comes after 10 years of retirement, an extra £40,000 would be pocketed.

    Yet it is much more likely that inflation will be higher than expected.

    If the cost of living increases by 5% rather 2.5%, the pensioner will have lost a total of £240,000 by the age of 87, according to Hymans Robertson.

    Even if inflation remains muted, a pensioner living for 30 years after retirement rather than 22 will have waved goodbye to £120,000.

    Transferring your pension away from your employer

    A final salary company pension normally provides: annual increases in line with inflation; a spouse’s pension; and the option to take tax-free cash. All are calculated according to the rules of the scheme and average life expectancies. Someone heading for a £20,000 pension with cost of living increases at 65 might typically be offered a cash lump sum of £92,308 and a lower annual pension of £13,846, according to Hymans Robertson.

    However, if you do not need a spouse’s pension and have lower than average life expectancy, you might consider a transfer because superior terms may be available with a private insurer.

    By transferring out, you would also be free to give up your annual increases and spouse’s survivor pension for
    a higher initial pension.

    Furthermore, different factors would be used to calculate the tax-free sum, so this could be larger. If you qualify, you could also use flexible drawdown to get even more money from the fund.

    While these features may be attractive to some retirees, they could prove highly costly over the long term for the majority of pensioners.

    The transfer value will not be sufficient to replicate the guarantees provided by an employer’s scheme.

    Only by giving up various benefits can retirees secure higher initial pensions. For example, the transfer value of a £20,000 annual escalating pension would typically be £460,000, according to Hymans Robertson.

    In an insurance company pension or Sipp, you could take 25%, or £115,000, as tax-free cash, giving you one-quarter more immediate cash than if you had stayed with the final salary scheme.

    The remaining transfer value of £345,000 could then be used to buy a pension. If you wanted to maintain some cost of living protection, you would now get only £11,000 — more than £2,000 less a year than if you had stayed with your employer’s scheme.

    However, this rises to £14,000 with poor life expectancy, so someone with health issues might be better off by switching out.

    Similarly, if you buy a level pension, with no cost of living rises, you might get £17,000. If you are in poor health and give up a spouse’s pension as well, that rises again to £22,000.

    Russell-Smith said: “So you can take 25% more tax-free cash and buy a flat pension 25% higher on day one. If your life expectancy is poor and you don’t want a spouse’s pension either, you can get 60% more.”

    But there could be a high price to pay. Khalaf said: “We already see situations where women are widowed and only at that point do they discover that they have been left with nothing to live on.”

    Sum alert

    Deciding whether to take a tax-free lump sum at retirement will depend on your health, tax status and finances. However, figures from Hymans Robertson show that those in final salary schemes typically end up receiving only 50% to 60% of the value of the sum they surrender.
  • milesmalpractice
    Options
    Any advice please. I have just come from a distressed friend. She has many problems, all worse than her pension situation. I said that I couldn't do much about things apart from give her support. However, I would investigate her pension position.

    She only receives a very small National Health Pension despite working as a Nurse and Health visitor for almost 40 years , as she was on a final salary scheme and worked part time for her final few years. Now of course she would be entitled to an average pay based pension.

    She worked part time as she took up a post delivering vocational qualifications in a school. She does not receive a pension for this employment which lasted more than 8 years as the head did not give her a permanent contract ( despite it being a legal requirement to do so after 2 years continual employment.

    Finally, to add a bit more salt her state pension is limited as she was advised to pay the married woman's contribution.

    The rampant unfairness of this situation appalled me. Is there anything she can do?
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 248K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards