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  • FIRST POST
    • GotNoMoney
    • By GotNoMoney 7th Mar 11, 11:26 AM
    • 70Posts
    • 47Thanks
    GotNoMoney
    "This is how much the law says you need to live on"
    • #1
    • 7th Mar 11, 11:26 AM
    "This is how much the law says you need to live on" 7th Mar 11 at 11:26 AM
    __________________________________________________ ___

    Main question:

    When the Department for Work and Pensions send you a letter and it says (actual quote, verbatim) ...

    "This is how much the law says you need to live on"

    ... can anyone point me to this "law" please?

    Which Act?

    Which sub-section?

    I want to see a breakdown of what is allocated for say, the gas bill, electric bill, water rates and so on, including food.

    __________________________________________________ ___

    Second question:

    You can get "hardship" payments whilst you are not seeking work, so then aren't there people just continually claiming hardship payments and never looking for work? Hardship payments are only £10 a week less than normal Jobseeker's Allowance payments.

    How many hardship payments can you claim? An unlimited amount for an unlimited time?

    I would look myself, but I am not looking through fifty thousand billion trillion pages of laws that were designed from the outset to make it nearly impossible to clarify anything you have a question about, I wondered if anyone here might know the answers?
Page 1
    • HappyMJ
    • By HappyMJ 7th Mar 11, 11:37 AM
    • 20,622 Posts
    • 17,194 Thanks
    HappyMJ
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 11, 11:37 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Mar 11, 11:37 AM
    There is no breakdown of costs. Everyone is different. It's £65.45 per week and it's up to you how to spend it. Hopefully sensibly.

    I thought hardship payments were about £40 per week for a single person? Can someone confirm this? You can only claim it if you have absolutely no money at all (or at least claim to). You would usually be much better off by working even if self empolyed and claiming tax credits.
    • GotNoMoney
    • By GotNoMoney 7th Mar 11, 12:40 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    GotNoMoney
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 11, 12:40 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Mar 11, 12:40 PM
    There is no breakdown of costs.
    Originally posted by HappyMJ
    If they send letters out with "the law says this is how much you need to live on" there obviously is a breakdown of costs somewhere for them to say this in the first place.

    Looks like I will be filing a Freedom of Information request.

    Everyone is different. It's £65.45 per week and it's up to you how to spend it. Hopefully sensibly.
    Originally posted by HappyMJ
    Everyone is the same in that everyone gets the same amount of money - currently £67.50 a week. I want to know exactly how they arrive at this figure.

    I thought hardship payments were about £40 per week for a single person? Can someone confirm this? You can only claim it if you have absolutely no money at all (or at least claim to). You would usually be much better off by working even if self empolyed and claiming tax credits.
    Originally posted by HappyMJ
    I heard it is £10 less so if that is true, I assume it is £57.50 a week, roughly.

    How long can you claim that for?
    • HappyMJ
    • By HappyMJ 7th Mar 11, 12:46 PM
    • 20,622 Posts
    • 17,194 Thanks
    HappyMJ
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 11, 12:46 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Mar 11, 12:46 PM
    If they send letters out with "the law says this is how much you need to live on" there obviously is a breakdown of costs somewhere for them to say this in the first place.

    Looks like I will be filing a Freedom of Information request.



    Everyone is the same in that everyone gets the same amount of money - currently £67.50 a week. I want to know exactly how they arrive at this figure.



    I heard it is £10 less so if that is true, I assume it is £57.50 a week, roughly.

    How long can you claim that for?
    Originally posted by GotNoMoney
    FOI request has been done already. http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/how_the_weekly_jobseekers_allowa

    I thought the £67.50 applies from the first benefit payment after 11th april? http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_193028.pdf
    Last edited by HappyMJ; 07-03-2011 at 12:49 PM.
  • MrRedundant
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 11, 12:52 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 11, 12:52 PM
    If you put this level of effort into jobhunting it shouldnt be an issue for you for long.
  • Oldernotwiser
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 11, 1:34 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 11, 1:34 PM



    Everyone is the same in that everyone gets the same amount of money - currently £67.50 a week. I want to know exactly how they arrive at this figure.

    Originally posted by GotNoMoney
    Only if they're 25 and over. If not, it's £51 per week.

    I am certain that there is no breakdown of figures and cannot see how there possibly could be.
    • Jeff Bridges hair
    • By Jeff Bridges hair 7th Mar 11, 3:07 PM
    • 5,974 Posts
    • 7,236 Thanks
    Jeff Bridges hair
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 11, 3:07 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 11, 3:07 PM
    If they send letters out with "the law says this is how much you need to live on" there obviously is a breakdown of costs somewhere for them to say this in the first place.

    Looks like I will be filing a Freedom of Information request.



    Everyone is the same in that everyone gets the same amount of money - currently £67.50 a week. I want to know exactly how they arrive at this figure.



    I heard it is £10 less so if that is true, I assume it is £57.50 a week, roughly.

    How long can you claim that for?
    Originally posted by GotNoMoney
    The best way to think of it .. The government are the law and they state thats how much you have each week to live on.
  • Jowo
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 11, 3:16 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 11, 3:16 PM
    If you put this level of effort into jobhunting it shouldnt be an issue for you for long.
    Originally posted by MrRedundant
    To the OP - how did you get on with the jobs that DMG and I posted that you didn't unearth during your visits to the job centre?


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=41559208&highlight=#post41559208

    Does your interest in hardship payment mean you didn't complete your mandatory 4 week work placement in mid January and have been sanctioned or is it just out of curiosity about how the process works for people who have been kicked off JSA for not meeting its conditions?
    Last edited by Jowo; 07-03-2011 at 3:26 PM.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 7th Mar 11, 7:00 PM
    • 27,173 Posts
    • 17,247 Thanks
    DCFC79
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 11, 7:00 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 11, 7:00 PM
    Interesting thread

    just keep n lookin for jobs and apply for them
    Last edited by DCFC79; 07-03-2011 at 9:28 PM.
    Je Suis Charlie
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 7th Mar 11, 9:02 PM
    • 5,589 Posts
    • 4,148 Thanks
    ohreally
    You may find the following insightful...http://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/files/jrf/minimum-income-standard-2009-summary.pdf

    http://www.minimumincome.org.uk/
    Last edited by ohreally; 07-03-2011 at 9:04 PM.
    Imagination is a mental faculty that serves as a coping mechanism for those who can't or won't accept reality - unicorns and dragons and wives who don't nag, are all figments of the "imagination".
  • cassieB57
    __________________________________________________ ___

    Main question:

    When the Department for Work and Pensions send you a letter and it says (actual quote, verbatim) ...

    "This is how much the law says you need to live on"

    ... can anyone point me to this "law" please?

    Which Act?

    Which sub-section?

    I want to see a breakdown of what is allocated for say, the gas bill, electric bill, water rates and so on, including food.

    __________________________________________________ ___

    Second question:

    You can get "hardship" payments whilst you are not seeking work, so then aren't there people just continually claiming hardship payments and never looking for work? Hardship payments are only £10 a week less than normal Jobseeker's Allowance payments.

    How many hardship payments can you claim? An unlimited amount for an unlimited time?

    I would look myself, but I am not looking through fifty thousand billion trillion pages of laws that were designed from the outset to make it nearly impossible to clarify anything you have a question about, I wondered if anyone here might know the answers?
    Originally posted by GotNoMoney
    1 JSA Regs, reg 83(a) & 86A(a); IS (Gen) Regs, reg 17(1)(a)

    1 JSA Regs, Sch 1, para 1; IS (Gen) Regs, Sch 2, para 1

    Sorry but I don't know how to post a link
  • cassieB57
    It's a bit unwieldy byt here it is:

    Applicable amounts

    83. Except in the case of a claimant to whom regulation 84 , 85 or 86 or Part X (applicable amounts in other cases and urgent cases) applies, a claimant’s weekly applicable amount shall be the aggregate of such of the following amounts as may apply in his case—

    (a)an amount in respect of himself or if he is a member of a couple, an amount in respect of both of them, determined in accordance with sub-paragraph (1), (2) or (3), as the case may be, of paragraph 1 of Schedule 1;

    (b)an amount determined in accordance with paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 in respect of any child or young person who is a member of his family, excluding a child or young person whose capital, if calculated in accordance with Part VIII in like manner as for the claimant would exceed £3,000, but including a child whose capital falls to be treated as income in accordance with regulation 106 (1) (modification in respect of children and young persons);

    (c)an amount in respect of himself, or where the claimant is a member of a family, an amount in respect of any member of the family aged 16 or over determined in accordance with paragraph 3 of Schedule 1 (residential allowance);

    (d)where he is a member of a family of which at least one member is a child or young person, an amount determined in accordance with Part II of Schedule 1 (family premium);

    (e)the amount of any premiums which may be applicable to him, determined in accordance with Parts III and IV of Schedule 1 (premiums); and

    (f)any amounts determined in accordance with Schedule 2 (housing costs) which may be applicable to him in respect of mortgage interest payments or such other housing costs as are prescribed in that Schedule.

    (I hope GilbertGradgrind is reading this)
    Last edited by cassieB57; 07-03-2011 at 10:53 PM.
    • diable
    • By diable 7th Mar 11, 10:59 PM
    • 5,124 Posts
    • 3,966 Thanks
    diable
    You should get more if you live in London pffft
  • cassieB57
    Sorry again but I dont know how to do the separate quotes so I've answered your second question here, it's in the DMG part 35.

    "Hardship payments are payments of JSA(IB) that are made to certain people who
    1.
    do not qualify for JSA under normal rules and
    2.
    would suffer hardship if JSA is not paid."

    'not available for work or not actively seeking work' means that for a particular benefit week the customer has not shown themselves to be jobseeking or have not been available for work, and that doubt was referred to a Decision Maker who applied a sanction. The sanction will apply for each week the customer was not available or ASE. Since normally jobseekers will sign fortnightly, the sanction would be for a week or fortnight. If they did the same thing the next fortnight they micht get another week or 2 week sanction, so in theory they could be 'not entitled' to JSA indefinately and they could claim hardship payments each time they are sanctioned. But they may not get anything if they have other means such as savings, or a partner who works, or if they themselves have other income.
  • dark lady
    Cassie i have asked you a question on the thread Refuse work placement on Flexible New Deal about New Deal workers and Employers Liability Insurance.
  • cassieB57
    Cassie i have asked you a question on the thread Refuse work placement on Flexible New Deal about New Deal workers and Employers Liability Insurance.
    Originally posted by dark lady
    I answered it there, but here as well and extract from the HSE booklet:Employers’ Liability (Compulsory Insurance) Act 1969

    In some cases you will not need additional employers’ liability insurance for volunteers or for:

    students who work for you unpaid;

    people who are not employed, but taking part in a youth or adult training programme; or

    a school student on a work experience programme.*
    Insurers will usually cover the above under an existing employers’ liability policy, and there is generally no need to inform your insurer if you take on any of the above. However, you should talk to your insurer if you take on the above either for long periods, or if they are doing work that is not your company’s usual business, and you should bear in mind the level of risk they may be exposed to during the time they are working for you. It may be necessary for you to carry out a separate risk assessment (eg for young workers) or take special measures for those listed above.
    • red devil
    • By red devil 8th Mar 11, 1:53 PM
    • 10,339 Posts
    • 7,687 Thanks
    red devil
    can you get hardship payments if you refuse to go on the work placement?
  • Mr_Oink
    If they send letters out with "the law says this is how much you need to live on" there obviously is a breakdown of costs somewhere for them to say this in the first place.
    Originally posted by GotNoMoney
    Sure there is! It's in the red folder at the end of 'MP's expense rules' just after the John Lewis list.

    Sir George Young made me chuckle. Bought a £500 dishwasher, then claimed for Fairy liquid.....
  • vaporate
    The law is complete bull because it is not enough to live on.

    You might eat, like soup and chips, but paying the utility bills too...
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • GotNoMoney
    • By GotNoMoney 8th Mar 11, 4:46 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    GotNoMoney
    Thanks for all the replies, but not a single one shows any actual numbers. I want to see how they arrive at the figure of £67.50 a week.

    Comments like "If you looked this hard for a job" are a good way of avoiding the subject.

    All I want to see is something like:

    Gas bill: £10
    Electric bill: £25
    Food expenses: £27.50
    Travel: £5.00
    TOTAL: £67.50

    I don't understand why asking such a question should be such a shock to people. I am not the one that said "this is how much the law says you need to live on".

    Its like me conning someone into paying me £50 a week then when they come around to asking me why they are paying me this money, I say "because the law says". The first thing they will say is show me which law or where "the" law says that.

    What if someone worked out these figures properly? We all know the sum would exceed £67.50 by quite a long way once you start bringing clothes and other such items (only ones that are needed) into account.

    It would be interesting to see what figure it really amounts to, just out of interest.
    Last edited by GotNoMoney; 08-03-2011 at 4:50 PM.
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