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  • FIRST POST
    bagsy
    claiming money back from CSA ?...advice please..
    • #1
    • 20th Oct 09, 4:56 PM
    claiming money back from CSA ?...advice please.. 20th Oct 09 at 4:56 PM
    Hi, after a bit of advice please,
    16 years ago the girl I was living with fell pregnant, so I did the decent thing and married her. 18 months later we were divorceed, and I lost the houses and everything in it.

    Plus I had the CSA after me for maintence for the child. The thought didn’t cross my mind that the child might not be mine, so I agreed to the payments which was £25 month direct to the CSA for back payments and £350 month direct to the mother (this was not my choice but directed to do so by CSA.
    Over the years as the child grew up I began to have my doubts about where he was mine or not.
    As my new wife was due to have a baby last year, I talked to her about my doubts and we decided to do a DNA test. This was done and the results came back as NEGATIVE. (not my son).
    This was rather upsetting, but when I confronted my Ex wife she admitted that she was sleeping with someone else at the time. So I stopped all payments!
    I’ve contacted the CSA and sent the DNA result in, but they have told me that I need to get the tests done by a company reconised by them. This could prove difficult as I'm no longer talking with my ex wife.?. what can I do?…..
    I have seen many articles and reports on claiming money back? The CSA was a bit woollie over this? They have said that I will probably get back the £25 pounds a month as this was paid directly to the, but didn’t think I would get the 350 a month back?….I questioned this as it was them that told me to pay her directly..?…..Where do I stand on this?….
    Also will I get the money back dated to the date I made my first payment?….or will it be from when I notified them?…
    Can i make a claim againist her?…..
    many thanks if you can help!
Page 1
  • Dancing Shoes
    • #2
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:11 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:11 PM
    It may be that because you paid her directly you may need to take her to court for the money back.......evil woman
    The poor boy must be devastated
    : rotfl:
  • chriszzz
    • #3
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:12 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:12 PM
    Hi Bagsy,
    I couldn't read and run,Oh my! what a sad situation, I am sorry that you have only just found out you are not the father, this must of come as a shock?

    I really don't know how these things sort themselves out and i suppose if you want to prove it to the csa then i suggest you will have to go to a company recognised with them, am sure your ex will have to do a dna test because it has now been questioned.

    I don't have legal advice to offer but I think it may be best that you see a solicitor, this is an awful place for a nrp to find themselves in, believing that they have a child, contributing to the child, only to find years later that it is not their child.

    I do hope you can resolve your difference, I really feel sorry for the child as this child has also been deceived, how is this child going to react to the knowledge that your not the father, Its going to be quite tough on him because he will think he has lost his dad.
  • borders_dude
    • #4
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:32 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:32 PM
    According to the CSA website:


    We do not have to pay back any child maintenance they paid for that child before they denied that they are the parent
    So I doubt you would get all the money back from the CSA that you paid before you denied you were the childs parent.
    When dealing with the CSA its important to note that it is commonly accepted as unfit for purpose, and by default this also means the staff are unfit for purpose.
  • Orson Cart
    • #5
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:36 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Oct 09, 5:36 PM
    I’ve contacted the CSA and sent the DNA result in, but they have told me that I need to get the tests done by a company reconised by them!
    Originally posted by bagsy
    The law does not enable the CSA to dictate what company does the DNA test.

    If the practitioner who did your test is medically qualified then contact the parliamentary Ombudsman. While you are at it, ask the Ombudsman to claim your money back and interest at the prescribed 8% per year.
  • shell_542
    • #6
    • 20th Oct 09, 6:35 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Oct 09, 6:35 PM
    The law does not enable the CSA to dictate what company does the DNA test.

    If the practitioner who did your test is medically qualified then contact the parliamentary Ombudsman. While you are at it, ask the Ombudsman to claim your money back and interest at the prescribed 8% per year.
    Originally posted by Orson Cart
    I know some DNA tests do not hold up in court. Peace of mind tests, for example. If you have had one of those OP you may find you'll have to take another test done through a company like Cellmark ... who the CSA use. (Did you use them?)

    I would be seeking legal advice.

    Sorry you have found yourself in this situation and the poor boy
    August GC 10th - 10th : £200 / £70.61
    NSD : 2/8
    • monicaj
    • By monicaj 20th Oct 09, 7:53 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    monicaj
    • #7
    • 20th Oct 09, 7:53 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Oct 09, 7:53 PM
    According to the CSA website:



    So I doubt you would get all the money back from the CSA that you paid before you denied you were the childs parent.
    Originally posted by borders_dude
    This is NOT correct - OP please read my thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1499263&highlight=negative+pater nity+test. My husband is in the process of receiving £30k paid via the CSA in light of a negative paternity test for his 10 year old "son". With regard to the additional £6k he paid directly to the mother, this is a different story - he has decided not to persue her as we believe they have recently had their home repossessed, however the CSA will make an attempt (albeit not aggressive for the welfare of the child) to recover a large proportion of the £30k from her.

    I'm guessing from your thread that your son (now 15?) is aware of the test being done - my heart goes out to you all.

    I hope this helps.

    Monica
  • borders_dude
    • #8
    • 20th Oct 09, 7:56 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Oct 09, 7:56 PM
    According to the CSA website:

    We do not have to pay back any child maintenance they paid for that child before they denied that they are the parent


    So I doubt you would get all the money back from the CSA that you paid before you denied you were the childs parent.
    Originally posted by borders_dude


    This is NOT correct - OP please read my thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1499263&highlight=negative+pater nity+test. My husband is in the process of receiving £30k paid via the CSA in light of a negative paternity test for his 10 year old "son". With regard to the additional £6k he paid directly to the mother, this is a different story - he has decided not to persue her as we believe they have recently had their home repossessed, however the CSA will make an attempt (albeit not aggressive for the welfare of the child) to recover a large proportion of the £30k from her.

    I'm guessing from your thread that your son (now 15?) is aware of the test being done - my heart goes out to you all.

    I hope this helps.

    Monica
    Originally posted by monicaj
    What are you saying is not correct?

    1) My direct quote from the CSA website? I can provide a direct link to it.

    2) My opinion? Opinions arnt correct or incorrect. I said I doubted he would get all the money back. I didnt say he wouldnt or indeed that he would not be entitled to it back nor that he cant get it back.

    Please clarify.
    Last edited by borders_dude; 20-10-2009 at 7:57 PM. Reason: Spelling.
    When dealing with the CSA its important to note that it is commonly accepted as unfit for purpose, and by default this also means the staff are unfit for purpose.
    • monicaj
    • By monicaj 20th Oct 09, 8:17 PM
    • 203 Posts
    • 591 Thanks
    monicaj
    • #9
    • 20th Oct 09, 8:17 PM
    Message to OP
    • #9
    • 20th Oct 09, 8:17 PM
    I hope you found my post useful .............
    • Sensemaya
    • By Sensemaya 20th Oct 09, 8:26 PM
    • 1,676 Posts
    • 826 Thanks
    Sensemaya
    Bagsy

    Phone up Stephen Lawson.

    http://www.fdrlaw.co.uk/Family-Maintenance.asp
    Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.


  • Steve40
    This is a terrible situation to be in i would contact NACSA as they seem to be the people with direct links to the CSA it might be worth going along to one of your local MP's surgery also.

    It makes you wonder how many other NRP's are in this position. PWC's should be made to prove NRP's are legitimate before any action is taken. innocent until provent guilty and not the other way round
    I only speak of my own experiences. and research that i have carried out whilst dealing with my own case with the child support agency
  • plimsoll
    It makes you wonder how many other NRP's are in this position. PWC's should be made to prove NRP's are legitimate before any action is taken. innocent until provent guilty and not the other way round
    Originally posted by Steve40
    I disagree - not every woman cheats! It would create a lot of unnecessary hassle & expense & delay for many families if every father & every child had to have DNA tests. Yes, it is awful for those this does happen to but think how many cases do proceed either because they're allowed to assume paternity or because the "father" believes he is the father. I would have seriously resented being asked to "prove" that I hadn't cheated on my husband - particularly since he DID cheat on me!
  • borders_dude
    It makes you wonder how many other NRP's are in this position. PWC's should be made to prove NRP's are legitimate before any action is taken. innocent until provent guilty and not the other way round
    Originally posted by Steve40
    I hope kellogs comes on and reads this point. She will know the score with this one.

    Im pretty sure that when a NRP is first contacted by the CSA they are asked if they accept paternity. If they claim it is their child then I dont think there should be any need for the PWC to prove this is the case.
    When dealing with the CSA its important to note that it is commonly accepted as unfit for purpose, and by default this also means the staff are unfit for purpose.
    • Sensemaya
    • By Sensemaya 20th Oct 09, 11:47 PM
    • 1,676 Posts
    • 826 Thanks
    Sensemaya
    PWC's should be made to prove NRP's are legitimate before any action is taken. innocent until provent guilty and not the other way round
    Originally posted by Steve40
    Ex member of NACSA speaking here - as is MrGG. Or perhaps he still is.

    Denying paternity is a classic NRP get out to delay paying maintenance.As I was a married woman when I conceived - it was planned - I had a miscarriage before then - I am b***** well annoyed Steve40 has the audacity to state NRPs are innocent before being proved guilty.

    HOW DARE YOU COME ON THIS FORUM AND SAY THIS.

    YES I WENT THROUGH THE INDIGNITY OF BEING ASKED VERY PERSONAL QUESTIONS BY THE CSA TO PROVE THE NRP WAS THE FATHER AND WENT THROUGH THE DNA TEST.

    In my experience the csa bend over backwards to take the NRPs side and the PWC has to prove everything.

    The answer is this: Once a child is born, whether in hospital or at home, for whatever reason, let BOTH loving parents be subject to a DNA test for future reference on the off chance that the family will split up in the end and then there won't be any silly, stupid arguments on forums re: parentage.

    How would that feel when your wife/ lover/ partner has just given birth to a beautiful child you both wanted?

    If it's a one night stand, as most NRPs claim and it's the PWCs fault, tough.Then we go through the trauma and indignity and expense of going through the DNA test as it stands now. If the CSA can find the father....

    Does that now make you feel better?
    Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.


  • borders_dude
    n my experience the csa bend over backwards to take the NRPs side and the PWC has to prove everything.
    Originally posted by Sensemaya

    I think a lot of NRPs would disagree with you!
    When dealing with the CSA its important to note that it is commonly accepted as unfit for purpose, and by default this also means the staff are unfit for purpose.
  • LizzieS
    PWC's should be made to prove NRP's are legitimate before any action is taken. innocent until provent guilty and not the other way round
    Originally posted by Steve40
    Double edged sword there - you are saying a pwc can never be trusted to name the correct father (sorry but I like thousands more can and did).

    Not sure what happened with the legislation, but there was an intention to force all fathers names onto birth certificates - realistically that is the real time to question paternity. Of course there are those who split up before birth - they are more likely to query paternity anyway for numerous reasons.
    • Sensemaya
    • By Sensemaya 21st Oct 09, 6:03 AM
    • 1,676 Posts
    • 826 Thanks
    Sensemaya
    I think a lot of NRPs would disagree with you!
    Originally posted by borders_dude
    It depends whether the NRP is denying paternity because of delaying tactics.

    But you would say that!
    Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.


  • borders_dude

    But you would say that!
    Originally posted by Sensemaya
    I would say it? I have said it and I shall say it again. I think a lot of NRPs would disagree with you.

    NRPs dont always get an easy time with the CSA you know. There are thousands of horror stories.

    I must admit that I was a bit sceptical about alot of them until I (a NRP) started going through them to make my payments got to to see how they screw up so badly for the NRP even though in my case I was fully compliant etc etc
    When dealing with the CSA its important to note that it is commonly accepted as unfit for purpose, and by default this also means the staff are unfit for purpose.
  • shell_542
    Its very similar isn't it? These NRPs who try to get out of paying full stop give all NRPs a bad name and everyone suspicious of them ... and these woman who sleep around and end up not knowing themselves who their child's father is, end up giving women a bad name.

    So just like a woman who knows she has been faithful would resent being made to take a DNA test to prove parentage, a compliant NRP resents being forced to go through the CSA because they are assumed to be trying to get out of supporting their child.
    August GC 10th - 10th : £200 / £70.61
    NSD : 2/8
  • karenx
    I had to do a dna test with my son, it was with cellnet, it was awful thinking that my ex believed that I cheated on him. He went for about 6 months saying to csa he didnt want to pay, then once they went to his employer he quit so he didnt have to pay through a deo and then said he wasnt the dad anyway. If he believed that why did he not say when was first contacted. I do believe it was to buy him some more time as he knew the dna test would take a while. Luckily it was all done within the space of a month, few weeks later a letter came through my door saying he is 99.999999999% the father. But still 5 and a half years later still no money from him.......
    In a way it could be a good idea to do dna tests from the start so the father cant later come back and say he believes he isnt the father.
    But then again the csa do like to make things awkward for pwc and nrp's :rolleyes:


    I feel so sorry for the boy Cant imagine what he will be going through. Or infact what he now says to his mum, as he doesnt know who his real dad is Equally sad for the nrp after thinking for 16 years he had a son. I hope you manage to get through this ok with the help from your friends and family xx
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