Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

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  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    kevin6666 wrote: »
    ... And if we take it that further FIT Installs are slim to none then FIT has failed fully. We have no ongoing domestic PV industry and we could have had twice the offshore wind capacity installed for the same cost as what we have with FIT. It's simply not arguable.
    Hi

    I take it that you're assuming no further pv installations in order to fix a historical average cost and then comparing this 'fixed historical average cost' of 'seed-subsidy' per unit for solar pv with a 'current cost' of 'seed-subsidy' for offshore wind ? ... surely, if this is the case, the comparison is flawed in that you logically either compare current with current, or historical with historical ?

    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • EricMears
    EricMears Posts: 3,232 Forumite
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    Cardew wrote: »
    Stimulating as your triumphant posts, about getting a dissenting voice silenced, might be; can't this thread return to the 'solar is wonderful and beyond reproach' theme.
    Actually, this thread is supposed to be about "Green & Ethical energy issues in the news". You are of course welcome to post any positive or negative reports about any such form of energy in it.

    And my post reporting the loss of one of our 'members' wasn't actually 'triumphant' although I have to say that anyone who openly posts on an MSE forum making it obvious that he/she is breaking their rules was asking for trouble and deserves to be removed.
    NE Derbyshire.4kWp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).24kWh of Pylontech batteries with Lux controller BEV : Hyundai Ioniq5
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    kevin6666 wrote: »
    I wasn't going to comment any further for a while at Martyn' posts but the post accusing me of saying we should invest totally in nuclear and then he digs out a post of mine which say no such thing. What the hell? And I stand by the post frankly. Yes we need renewables as well but we have to invest in generation that can generate when required.

    Sorry Kevin, but I think you were pretty clear:-
    If all the investment that's gone into renewables had gone into nuclear all of the public would have benefited and we would have long term sustainable power supply with cheaper energy bills. Instead FIT has provided the middle class with a misguided/smug belief that they're in someway helping save the planet and also a nice little money spinner paid for by those who can't afford these systems. You know somethings wrong when farmers have filled their fields with spinning solar panels instead of using them for farming! All these little PV systems are pointless as far as the grid is concerned so we still need proper investment in large scale energy production and renewables just can't cut it.

    You said that we'd be better off if all the renewables money had gone into nuclear. And you said renewables just can't cut it.

    If you didn't mean that then fine, but you can't blame me for reading it that way, and to claim you wrote no such thing ..... seriously?

    kevin6666 wrote: »
    And if we take it that further FIT Installs are slim to none then FIT has failed fully. We have no ongoing domestic PV industry and we could have had twice the offshore wind capacity installed for the same cost as what we have with FIT. It's simply not arguable.

    As I've previously pointed out, you are trying to price generation costs in subsidy costs. Try this test, double the FiT and half the term ..... according to you generation costs just doubled. Absurd.

    The purpose of the FiT scheme was to establish a PV industry (and supply chain) and bring down the cost of installs (generation).

    As I've said recently, the FiT scheme has now (already) delivered us with cheaper domestic PV than off-shore wind. In fact it's comparable to large scale PV and on-shore wind and nuclear. Think about that, domestic PV that can compete (or even beat) large scale generation. And to be clear I'm using my hypothetical 7p FiT rate, for fairness. The actual FiT rate now, makes domestic PV cheaper than all of the above.

    The scheme has not failed, but management won't let us benefit.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,764 Forumite
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    Article on storage. Nothing new, and no 'meat' on costs and efficiencies, but still interesting to see the information brought together:-

    From liquid air to supercapacitators, energy storage is finally poised for a breakthrough
    “It doesn’t always rain when you need water, so we have reservoirs - but we don’t have the same system for electricity,” says Jill Cainey, director of the UK’s Electricity Storage Network.

    But that may change in 2016, with industry figures predicting a breakthrough year for a technology not only seen as vital to the large-scale rollout of renewable energy, but also offering the prospect of lowering customers’ energy bills.

    Big batteries, whose costs are plunging, are leading the way. But a host of other technologies, from existing schemes like splitting water to create hydrogen, compressing air in underground caverns, flywheels and heated gravel pits, to longer term bets like supercapacitors and superconducting magnets, are also jostling for position.

    In the UK, the first plant to store electricity by squashing air into a liquid is due to open in March, while the first steps have been taken towards a virtual power station comprised of a network of home batteries.
    Energy storage is important for renewable energy not because green power is unpredictable - the sun, wind and tides are far more predictable than the surge that follows the end of a Wimbledon tennis final or the emergency shutdown of a gas-fired power plant. Storage is important because renewable energy is intermittent: strong winds in the early hours do not coincide with the peak demand of evenings. Storage allows electricity to be time-shifted to when it is needed, maximising the benefits of windfarms and solar arrays.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Alan_Brown
    Alan_Brown Posts: 200 Forumite
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    Hot on the heels of Spain's decision to penalise solar, Nevada is now doing it. Even to the point of retrospectively changing people's 20 year contracts.

    http://blog.rmi.org/blog_2016_01_15_nevada_shutters_its_residential_rooftop_market

    "On December 22, regulators approved a new solar tariff structure that dealt a powerful blow to the state’s residential rooftop market in what amounted to a one-two punch: a) a substantial increase to the fixed charges solar customers, coupled with b) a substantial decrease to the compensation they’d receive for net exported generation. The net effect is it sinks the economics for grid-connected rooftop solar in the state.

    More specifically, under the old rate structure, solar customers paid a fixed charge of $12.75 a month (the same as non-solar customers). Under the new structure, the charge jumps to $17.90 a month in 2016, then increases by $5.15 each year until it reaches $38.51 a month in 2020. (Customers who do not have solar will continue to pay the old, $12.75 fixed charge.) Meanwhile, the rate that solar customers pay for grid-supplied power declines slightly from 10.8 cents per kWh in 2016 to 9.9 cents, while the rate they are paid for excess power delivered to the grid falls sharply from 9.2 cents to 2.6 cents, or from roughly the retail rate to the wholesale rate.

    The new rates took effect on January 1, and—incredibly—will retroactively apply to all solar customers, even those who bought their systems under the old tariffs. (Such customers are typically grandfathered in.)"

    It'll be interesting to see whether cheaper battery storage will see a lot of customers going off grid, especially with increased energy company fixed charges making the financials of storage start to balance out. The article has a decent section on Grid defections.
  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,005 Forumite
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    Surely that sort of pricing in high pv areas like Nevada would make solar plus battery plus generator much cheaper overall?
    I think....
  • kevin6666
    kevin6666 Posts: 84 Forumite
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    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2016/02/fit_deployment_caps_that_have_been_reached_in_tariff_period_1_february_8_march_31_2016_as_of_09022016.pdf

    First caps info published earlier today. Very amateur hour atm but expected.
  • Brand_X
    Brand_X Posts: 57 Forumite
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    If you want to be eco-friendly, forget about faffy solar and wind power, they're just a money-making scam. Mother nature's best friends are fossil fuels, wood, hydro power, and nuclear - and in the future, nuclear waste, which can be re-used.

    Carbon - once the particulates have been filtered out - is good for the environment, so the only reason you should conserve fuel is to save money.
  • ed110220
    ed110220 Posts: 1,475 Forumite
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    edited 13 February 2016 at 5:20PM
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    Brand_X wrote: »
    If you want to be eco-friendly, forget about faffy solar and wind power, they're just a money-making scam. Mother nature's best friends are fossil fuels, wood, hydro power, and nuclear - and in the future, nuclear waste, which can be re-used.

    Carbon - once the particulates have been filtered out - is good for the environment, so the only reason you should conserve fuel is to save money.

    Care to supply us with a reliable source for your old school denial?

    Edit: I think I've been Poed ;)
    Solar install June 2022, Bath
    4.8 kW array, Growatt SPH5000 inverter, 2x Growatt ML33RTA batteries.
    SSW roof. ~22° pitch, BISF house. 12 x 400W Hyundai panels
  • Brand_X
    Brand_X Posts: 57 Forumite
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    ed110220 wrote: »
    Care to supply us with a reliable source for your old school denial?

    Edit: I think I've been Poed ;)

    No poe-ing involved, honest! I can link to various text sources, but I think it's easier to watch videos, so here's a few links:

    Professor John Christy interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhFqgflaQVQ

    Professor Bill Grey on climate change models (bad audio unfortunately): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL6ZCmmCU7c

    Climate change hearing at Canadian Senate, 2011 (the audio isn't great on this one either): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMmZF8gB7Gs

    Journalist Donna Laframboise interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pruTqY_JLcg

    The Great Global Warming Swindle - documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-m09lKtYT4

    Dr Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCrkqLaYjnc
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