Refused train ticket.
Options
consumer987
Posts: 19 Forumite
Hi
I was refused a train ticket by a stations ticket office.
I had enough money; a bank note and some small change and was keen to pay. The ticket office person told me to go to the local shops and get correct change for him. But I had less than 6 minutes before the train arrived. I was desperate because I had an appointment and so I needed that train. Not a later one.
He repeatedly refused me a permit to travel (a permit would have been fine as I could have purchased a ticket on the train). He kept telling me to go to the shops for him. I stood my ground as I did not wish to buy anything and I was not sure if any of the shop keepers would just give out change with no purchase. The distance to the shops and time for a transaction and so forth would have been far longer than 6 minutes anyway; he knew the train was on its way, I asked him when it was due.
It was amazing, I came up with so many sensible solutions. he refused every single one! It was the most incredible display of psychological abuse I have felt in a long time. I was meant to be in town, at least 7 miles away, for an interview; this man was preventing me from travelling to it on time.
he also threaten me with potential fines if I were to board without a ticket, so I was very worried. I knew, as he was so unfriendly, he could easily call the driver and say “A man sneaked on and refused to buy a ticket...fine him!!!” I could not risk that.
From the beginning of the incident, a nice calm starting point after saying hello and being refused a ticket, I suggested a few ideas (below), to name but a few, and not in this particular order.
Contact your superior, tell him you are out of change and that a customer needs to board the train = Refused
Turn on the permit to travel machine outside, so I can purchase a ticket with cash = Refused.
Contact the driver of the train to allow me to board and pay on the train= Refused.
Write on a piece of paper to support me boarding the train= Refused
If i get on the train without a permit to travel and attempt to buy a ticket on the train will you support me if they call through to this office to enquire if my story is accurate?
He said "I'm not supporting you “. “You need to go to the shop to get change”
He kept saying - Go to the shops.
I told him that I did not want to to go, I kept telling him, I don’t want to buy anything either.
So I said to him “You go to the shops!!“
He said : “ I'm not going to the shop just for you”
“ No, you will go to the shop for all your customers” I said.
“Are you telling me I have to walk to town?“
He refused to answer.
He said for me to use a credit card initially, after peering in my wallet.
but I was unsure how much money I had in that particular account, I suspected it was near zero. I was not going to risk going over drawn. So I refused to do that (I do have money in other accounts, but I had only a card for my regular food shopping account) I was not going to risk that!
It did flair up. I raised my voice, I had only a few minutes to get to the platform and had got absolutely nowhere with this ticket office person.
I felt like I was imprisoned! Serious. I was trapped. I was planning this interview for ages. I lost sleep preparing and I was just in time at the station, I needed to get on that train!!!
I said that I would just get on the train and pay on the train, as that was my only option.
He said you will likely be charged thousands of pounds at the inspectors discretion.
He was threatening me will huge fines! Now I could see a court case too.
My patience was lost (time ticking away; I could see the clock on the wall and display read out) it was so stressful. So I told him what I thought of this complete none sense. and I raised my voice and said I was going to ring up to complain.
He shouted at me through his little plastic hole in the wall as I left the office that he was going to complain about me!
My whole day was damaged. I felt so very sick, I was not a happy chap for a long time after.
If I was an old lady this would not have happened, I would have been given a permit to pass. easy thing to do. Just turn the permit to pass machine on and then i'd be allowed to pay for a proper ticket on route or at the destination.
I am a middle aged male. I received unfair abuse!
The station is usually manned by great staff, this guy was something else, with one of those smirky expressions that just triggers the most mellow of people.
Thanks for reading and any help you may offer.
*found on national rail site:
"If you are unable to purchase a Permit to Travel, you should obtain a ticket from the Conductor on the train or at the first opportunity."
solution found so far
“ How do I avoid a Penalty Fare?
To avoid paying a Penalty Fare, you must purchase a valid ticket to your destination for the class of travel you wish to use before starting your journey.
If you are unable to do so, you must buy a Permit to Travel from the machines that are provided at most stations. This permit must be upgraded to a valid ticket at the first opportunity.
If you are unable to purchase a Permit to Travel, you should obtain a ticket from the Conductor on the train or at the first opportunity.
”
So the ticket office cashier was in the wrong. It was all unnecessary.
I was refused a train ticket by a stations ticket office.
I had enough money; a bank note and some small change and was keen to pay. The ticket office person told me to go to the local shops and get correct change for him. But I had less than 6 minutes before the train arrived. I was desperate because I had an appointment and so I needed that train. Not a later one.
He repeatedly refused me a permit to travel (a permit would have been fine as I could have purchased a ticket on the train). He kept telling me to go to the shops for him. I stood my ground as I did not wish to buy anything and I was not sure if any of the shop keepers would just give out change with no purchase. The distance to the shops and time for a transaction and so forth would have been far longer than 6 minutes anyway; he knew the train was on its way, I asked him when it was due.
It was amazing, I came up with so many sensible solutions. he refused every single one! It was the most incredible display of psychological abuse I have felt in a long time. I was meant to be in town, at least 7 miles away, for an interview; this man was preventing me from travelling to it on time.
he also threaten me with potential fines if I were to board without a ticket, so I was very worried. I knew, as he was so unfriendly, he could easily call the driver and say “A man sneaked on and refused to buy a ticket...fine him!!!” I could not risk that.
From the beginning of the incident, a nice calm starting point after saying hello and being refused a ticket, I suggested a few ideas (below), to name but a few, and not in this particular order.
Contact your superior, tell him you are out of change and that a customer needs to board the train = Refused
Turn on the permit to travel machine outside, so I can purchase a ticket with cash = Refused.
Contact the driver of the train to allow me to board and pay on the train= Refused.
Write on a piece of paper to support me boarding the train= Refused
If i get on the train without a permit to travel and attempt to buy a ticket on the train will you support me if they call through to this office to enquire if my story is accurate?
He said "I'm not supporting you “. “You need to go to the shop to get change”
He kept saying - Go to the shops.
I told him that I did not want to to go, I kept telling him, I don’t want to buy anything either.
So I said to him “You go to the shops!!“
He said : “ I'm not going to the shop just for you”
“ No, you will go to the shop for all your customers” I said.
“Are you telling me I have to walk to town?“
He refused to answer.
He said for me to use a credit card initially, after peering in my wallet.
but I was unsure how much money I had in that particular account, I suspected it was near zero. I was not going to risk going over drawn. So I refused to do that (I do have money in other accounts, but I had only a card for my regular food shopping account) I was not going to risk that!
It did flair up. I raised my voice, I had only a few minutes to get to the platform and had got absolutely nowhere with this ticket office person.
I felt like I was imprisoned! Serious. I was trapped. I was planning this interview for ages. I lost sleep preparing and I was just in time at the station, I needed to get on that train!!!
I said that I would just get on the train and pay on the train, as that was my only option.
He said you will likely be charged thousands of pounds at the inspectors discretion.
He was threatening me will huge fines! Now I could see a court case too.
My patience was lost (time ticking away; I could see the clock on the wall and display read out) it was so stressful. So I told him what I thought of this complete none sense. and I raised my voice and said I was going to ring up to complain.
He shouted at me through his little plastic hole in the wall as I left the office that he was going to complain about me!
My whole day was damaged. I felt so very sick, I was not a happy chap for a long time after.
If I was an old lady this would not have happened, I would have been given a permit to pass. easy thing to do. Just turn the permit to pass machine on and then i'd be allowed to pay for a proper ticket on route or at the destination.
I am a middle aged male. I received unfair abuse!
The station is usually manned by great staff, this guy was something else, with one of those smirky expressions that just triggers the most mellow of people.
Thanks for reading and any help you may offer.
*found on national rail site:
"If you are unable to purchase a Permit to Travel, you should obtain a ticket from the Conductor on the train or at the first opportunity."
solution found so far
“ How do I avoid a Penalty Fare?
To avoid paying a Penalty Fare, you must purchase a valid ticket to your destination for the class of travel you wish to use before starting your journey.
If you are unable to do so, you must buy a Permit to Travel from the machines that are provided at most stations. This permit must be upgraded to a valid ticket at the first opportunity.
If you are unable to purchase a Permit to Travel, you should obtain a ticket from the Conductor on the train or at the first opportunity.
”
So the ticket office cashier was in the wrong. It was all unnecessary.
0
Comments
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What cash did you offer, and what change was due? What was the ticket price?
You don't have funds in a credit card account-you either have credit available or you don't.No free lunch, and no free laptop
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If your recollections are accurate then it was very poorly explained by the ticket clerk IMHO, he should have clearly stated however -
The PTT machine is only for use when there are no other ticket facilities at the station, he did not/does not have the authority to allow you to purchase on the train or travel without a ticket.
(yes, this may sound like 'refusal' but refusing to do something you aren't permitted to allow/do is a bit different to refusing for the sake of being a jobsworth).
If the B/O is open then a valid ticket must be bought before travel.
The lack of change is unfortunate but strictly speaking the booking office is only obliged to supply a ticket on production of an acceptable means to pay -if they haven't change then they can't accept a cash payment, harsh though that seems.
In the BR days they had the option of giving you a chit to collect your change later in the day and taking the higher amount from you -hardly a good alternative either and one now, long since gone.
The Driver wouldn't be the slightest interested in your ticket -it's not a bus.
They don't inspect tickets and know nothing about them nor do they have any authority regarding them.
The ticket office clerks 'superior' would be an office based manager who is almost certainly not able to overrule ticketing rules either.
Most of these booths don't have direct contact abilities on the spot to superiors in any case.
The guard or ticket inspector on the train would be the person who would be interested and authorised to deal with your ticket issues, they cannot fine you -only a court can do that.
The worst that can happen is that you'd be reported for failing to pay before boarding and in the extremely unlikely event you were then reported for prosecution you'd get a day in court, although this is exceptionally rare and reserved for regular fare evaders, not someone without change once.
My advice (15 years as a guard/inspector/inspector manager) would be:
If this should happen again, go directly to the guard on the platform and explain the issue or if thats not possible go directly to the guard once on the train (do not wait for them to come and see you) and explain the issue.
If you have time on the platform then always use the first option, guards/TIs dislike being presented with a 'fait accompli' as it limits what they can do.
You'll find most guards are perfectly amenable provided they don't think you are 'trying it on'.0 -
"The PTT machine is only for use when there are no other ticket facilities at the station"
There was no facility to pay by cash at this station, his till system was off, No change available!!
the web site says all uk cash is acceptable!! It wasn’t, he would not except my 10 pound note or coins. so he should have turned the permit to travel machine on and done this all politely without threatening me.
Or politely said "Don't worry, these things happen, just ask the guard or inspector on the train, just acknowledge them before you board, have a nice day!"
He didn't, he threatened me with fines and even said he would not support me if they called to confirm the issue with him at the station regards not having any change. What was he going to do if the transport police or train inspector called, lie on the phone and say there was no problem with change in his till? sounded like it to me. i asked if they call you to confirm will you support me?. he said " I will not support you"
vile and disgraceful. particularly when your train is about to arrive.0 -
if it was not policy to turn on the PTT machine.A decent ticket officer would say:
"Dont worry! I'll get you on that train, I can see you have the money and are prepared to pay. if you don't see the conductor just walk up the train until you see him or her. If I am called at this ticket office I shall support you, have a nice day"!
He kept telling me to go shopping!! Go shopping to get him change!! With just 6 minutes for my train to arrive. Do you have any idea what that is like with an important meeting in town. With his threats of fines and claiming he would not support me and likely spike the situation further.
it was horrendous.0 -
Don't keep us in suspense- Did you catch the train?I am not a cat (But my friend is)0
-
If your recollections are accurate then it was very poorly explained by the ticket clerk IMHO, he should have clearly stated however -
The PTT machine is only for use when there are no other ticket facilities at the station, he did not/does not have the authority to allow you to purchase on the train or travel without a ticket.
(yes, this may sound like 'refusal' but refusing to do something you aren't permitted to allow/do is a bit different to refusing for the sake of being a jobsworth).
If the B/O is open then a valid ticket must be bought before travel.
The lack of change is unfortunate but strictly speaking the booking office is only obliged to supply a ticket on production of an acceptable means to pay -if they haven't change then they can't accept a cash payment, harsh though that seems.
If they are unable to take a payment then surely the situation is exactly the same as if the ticket office was closed for any other reason, or if the ticket machine was out of order. When this happens at one of my local stations we're told to buy tickets on the train. Appreciate different operators have different rules but they have to make some sense...0 -
Post this one on https://www.railforums.co.uk as well.0
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consumer987 wrote: »
There was no facility to pay by cash at this station, his till system was off, No change available!!
I have to doubt your entire story, if the quote above is correct then how would going to a shop to get change have helped?0 -
Very melodramatic first op. Great how you noted down the exact conversation and even added in the ticking clock to add to the suspense.
Looking forward to the next installment.The world is not ruined by the wickedness of the wicked, but by the weakness of the good. Napoleon0 -
consumer987 wrote: »"The PTT machine is only for use when there are no other ticket facilities at the station"
There was no facility to pay by cash at this station, his till system was off, No change available!!
the web site says all uk cash is acceptable!! It wasn’t, he would not except my 10 pound note or coins. so he should have turned the permit to travel machine on and done this all politely without threatening me.
Or politely said "Don't worry, these things happen, just ask the guard or inspector on the train, just acknowledge them before you board, have a nice day!"
He didn't, he threatened me with fines and even said he would not support me if they called to confirm the issue with him at the station regards not having any change. What was he going to do if the transport police or train inspector called, lie on the phone and say there was no problem with change in his till? sounded like it to me. i asked if they call you to confirm will you support me?. he said " I will not support you"
vile and disgraceful. particularly when your train is about to arrive.consumer987 wrote: »Hi
I was refused a train ticket by a stations ticket office.
I had enough money; a bank note and some small change and was keen to pay. The ticket office person told me to go to the local shops and get correct change for him. But I had less than 6 minutes before the train arrived. I was desperate because I had an appointment and so I needed that train. Not a later one.
He repeatedly refused me a permit to travel (a permit would have been fine as I could have purchased a ticket on the train). He kept telling me to go to the shops for him. I stood my ground as I did not wish to buy anything and I was not sure if any of the shop keepers would just give out change with no purchase. The distance to the shops and time for a transaction and so forth would have been far longer than 6 minutes anyway; he knew the train was on its way, I asked him when it was due.
It was amazing, I came up with so many sensible solutions. he refused every single one! It was the most incredible display of psychological abuse I have felt in a long time. I was meant to be in town, at least 7 miles away, for an interview; this man was preventing me from travelling to it on time.
he also threaten me with potential fines if I were to board without a ticket, so I was very worried. I knew, as he was so unfriendly, he could easily call the driver and say “A man sneaked on and refused to buy a ticket...fine him!!!” I could not risk that.
From the beginning of the incident, a nice calm starting point after saying hello and being refused a ticket, I suggested a few ideas (below), to name but a few, and not in this particular order.
Contact your superior, tell him you are out of change and that a customer needs to board the train = Refused
Turn on the permit to travel machine outside, so I can purchase a ticket with cash = Refused.
Contact the driver of the train to allow me to board and pay on the train= Refused.
Write on a piece of paper to support me boarding the train= Refused
If i get on the train without a permit to travel and attempt to buy a ticket on the train will you support me if they call through to this office to enquire if my story is accurate?
He said "I'm not supporting you “. “You need to go to the shop to get change”
He kept saying - Go to the shops.
I told him that I did not want to to go, I kept telling him, I don’t want to buy anything either.
So I said to him “You go to the shops!!“
He said : “ I'm not going to the shop just for you”
“ No, you will go to the shop for all your customers” I said.
“Are you telling me I have to walk to town?“
He refused to answer.
He said for me to use a credit card initially, after peering in my wallet.
but I was unsure how much money I had in that particular account, I suspected it was near zero. I was not going to risk going over drawn. So I refused to do that (I do have money in other accounts, but I had only a card for my regular food shopping account) I was not going to risk that!
It did flair up. I raised my voice, I had only a few minutes to get to the platform and had got absolutely nowhere with this ticket office person.
I felt like I was imprisoned! Serious. I was trapped. I was planning this interview for ages. I lost sleep preparing and I was just in time at the station, I needed to get on that train!!!
I said that I would just get on the train and pay on the train, as that was my only option.
He said you will likely be charged thousands of pounds at the inspectors discretion.
He was threatening me will huge fines! Now I could see a court case too.
My patience was lost (time ticking away; I could see the clock on the wall and display read out) it was so stressful. So I told him what I thought of this complete none sense. and I raised my voice and said I was going to ring up to complain.
He shouted at me through his little plastic hole in the wall as I left the office that he was going to complain about me!
My whole day was damaged. I felt so very sick, I was not a happy chap for a long time after.
If I was an old lady this would not have happened, I would have been given a permit to pass. easy thing to do. Just turn the permit to pass machine on and then i'd be allowed to pay for a proper ticket on route or at the destination.
I am a middle aged male. I received unfair abuse!
The station is usually manned by great staff, this guy was something else, with one of those smirky expressions that just triggers the most mellow of people.
Thanks for reading and any help you may offer.
*found on national rail site:
"If you are unable to purchase a Permit to Travel, you should obtain a ticket from the Conductor on the train or at the first opportunity."
Just in case it disappears overnight!consumer987 wrote: »if it was not policy to turn on the PTT machine.A decent ticket officer would say:
"Dont worry! I'll get you on that train, I can see you have the money and are prepared to pay. if you don't see the conductor just walk up the train until you see him or her. If I am called at this ticket office I shall support you, have a nice day"!
He kept telling me to go shopping!! Go shopping to get him change!! With just 6 minutes for my train to arrive. Do you have any idea what that is like with an important meeting in town. With his threats of fines and claiming he would not support me and likely spike the situation further.
it was horrendous.0
This discussion has been closed.
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