Disability employment legal rights clarification request - Asperger Syndrome
Options
Comments
-
One thing to remember is that employers are offering jobs because they have something which needs to be done. They are not generally interested in reducing unemployment, making life better for the long-term unemployed, or reducing discrimination. Their aim in the selection process is to get the best possible person for the job. And as I've said elsewhere, this is not an exact science, there IS an element of luck involved (on both sides).Signature removed for peace of mind0
-
Another point to make is that if it's basically your social skills which are holding you back, it may be possible to improve them.
I don't know if DS1 declares his AS when he's job hunting: fortunately he hasn't had to do a lot of it. He tried self employment after Uni, but it's not for everyone, and it wasn't for him - he needs to be told what to do, and especially when to do it by, or it doesn't quite happen. But one of his Uni friends was working for a company which had a base in our home town as well as in his Uni home town, they recommended him, he went for an interview (or a chat, not sure which!) and there he was. but he's also worked front of house in a cinema, and that really helped him - it's a small local place, and when they say "Enjoy the film", they really seem to mean it, and when they ask afterwards "Did you enjoy that?", they actually seem to be interested! So he 'learned' to be polite to people, and to say the right things. (Not that I hadn't done my best on that front myself, you understand ...)
There's also the example of DH. I've known him since we were teenagers, before I knew that the autistic spectrum existed, and he was definitely 'odd' to the point of uncomfortable. He had one topic of conversation: religion. And he would pursue this well beyond the bounds of comfort, so my friends and I would avoid him as much as possible.
Then he went to Uni, and realised that other ways of interacting with people were possible. He learned, in short, to care about people, and to show that he cared in the things he said. There are still problems sometimes: he manages a diverse team, and he sometimes communicates in ways which they find abrasive and uncompromising.
Neither DH nor his Dad have ever been diagnosed as having Asperger Syndrome, but knowing what I do now, and knowing several who are definitely on the spectrum, I'd put money on them both.
You may feel that the world would be a better place if AS was the norm, and that it's unfair of NTs to expect you to change the way you are. And I might agree with you. But I definitely adjust my communication styles between work (where most of my colleagues are very touchy-feely NTs), and home (where no-one does touchy-feely!)Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
Googlewhacker wrote: »out of interest what has happened to these voluntary places, did you leave or were they only for a fixed time or are you still doing any of them?
For the first one the organisation unexpectedly closed. They were a charitable organisation, and I understood at the time they were having difficulty getting sponsors to pay things like rent etc - so I guess whatever reason it closed was financial. Was unable to contact the organisation again so it was like it disappeared. Also done things like Google for the name of the founder of the organisation etc. This one I arranged myself etc and found out about it through do-it.org.uk. This lasted only a couple of weeks. It involved working on the organisation's website.
Second one was for Pathways to work programme arranged via DEA. This came to a planned end and there was an end to the project itself anyway. This involved inputting data onto a database about a large collection of reference materials used by museum staff at a local museum. This lasted a couple of months.
Have looked on do-it.org.uk since but not seen anything I thought was strictly suitable in my area (don't see myself working with Girl guides etc, lol).Wanted a job, now have one. :beer:0 -
For the first one the organisation unexpectedly closed. They were a charitable organisation, and I understood at the time they were having difficulty getting sponsors to pay things like rent etc - so I guess whatever reason it closed was financial. Was unable to contact the organisation again so it was like it disappeared. Also done things like Google for the name of the founder of the organisation etc. This one I arranged myself etc and found out about it through do-it.org.uk. This lasted only a couple of weeks. It involved working on the organisation's website.
Second one was for Pathways to work programme arranged via DEA. This came to a planned end and there was an end to the project itself anyway. This involved inputting data onto a database about a large collection of reference materials used by museum staff at a local museum. This lasted a couple of months.
Have looked on do-it.org.uk since but not seen anything I thought was strictly suitable in my area (don't see myself working with Girl guides etc, lol).
Maybe it is worth offering the companies around your area to work for them for 3 months on a voluntary basis, send out speculative letters and explain that all you would like from it if satisfactory is a referance to gain paid employment.
This way its more targeted to your area, its with companies rather than charities and its shows iniative from yourself.
I'd be amazed if all companies said not to a bit of free labour!The Googlewhacker referance is to Dave Gorman and not to my opinion of the search engine!
If I give you advice it is only a view and always always take professional advice before acting!!!
4 people on the ignore list....Bliss!0 -
As well as do-it, have you checked out whether there is a local volunteer centre for your area? Ours sends out a weekly email which always lists new work and volunteering opportunities. You might also be able to register and make your availability known.
The voluntary sector can be more 'accepting' of difference - although not always, and there's still a need to get the right person in the right job.Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
Wants a job......
I have only skimmed your posts but I would just like to point out that going for a job interview is not about them understanding anyone's issues and dealing with them - it's about you 'being' the person that they most want to employ. It's a game - a ruse - an act. So, if you could 'be' that person that the job requires - get to know the job description inside out and upside down, know what it is they are looking for and making sure that you are 'that person with knobs on' for the duration of the interview - you will stand a much better chance of getting a job in the first place.If you haven't got it - please don't flaunt it. TIA.0 -
Their aim in the selection process is to get the best possible person for the job. And as I've said elsewhere, this is not an exact science, there IS an element of luck involved (on both sides).
What if I was the best possible person for the job and they've now thrown that away?! All because of one issue. I am convinced I would be among the best, definitely in terms of the technical/academic aspect of the work. The only thing I can think would trump it would be if someone had work experience directly in a relevant area, which is obviously far better than two qualifications in the eye of an employer. Fair enough I can say their loss, and hope they selected someone who was not so good (evil laughter), but I'm the one who has never had a paid job so it seems the joke's on me. I applied under the two ticks disabled guaranteed interview scheme, but don't see why they bothered if they knew my disability would be justification for not employing me. I travel 100 miles there and 100 miles back to this interview, when it was already pretty much a dead cert I would not get the job, and they won't even meet travel expenses. I don't get the point in a guaranteed interview if the result is already determined based on the disability anyway, just seems like some stupid exercise to meet targets on their part.As well as do-it, have you checked out whether there is a local volunteer centre for your area?
The voluntary sector can be more 'accepting' of difference - although not always, and there's still a need to get the right person in the right job.
Yes have looked at http://www.volunteering-wales.net
Of course skills matching is important in volunteering too. For example I would understand if the Samaritans thought it better to not let me volunteer for them. But such a position primarily involves lots of contact with people, particularly distressed potentially suicidal people - where saying the wrong thing or responding inappropriately would be undesirable.Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »I would just like to point out that going for a job interview is not about them understanding anyone's issues and dealing with them - it's about you 'being' the person that they most want to employ. It's a game - a ruse - an act. So, if you could 'be' that person that the job requires - get to know the job description inside out and upside down
This may be true, and when I apply for jobs I spend a great deal of time reading the person description and a great deal more once an interview is offered. It is the best clue as to what they want, what to put on the application form, and what questions are likely to be asked at interview. In fact I often do not apply for many jobs after reading their person description. So not only do my difficulties restrict the number of jobs I feel suitable applying for, the ones I do apply for I have no chance anyway.
Problem is people with Asperger's find things like the unwritten rules of these "games" hard to understand. People with Aspergers are also generally not good at winning popularity contests, which I think is a fair way of redefining how you describe a job interview - i.e. kids with Aspergers at school will invariably be the unpopular ones being bullied by every other kid in the school.
It takes a great deal of effort for me to come across as a "normal person", it is almost like acting a role, and every precise detail of my behaviour needs to be cognitively considered - i.e. the things that come naturally to most people, do not to me and need conscious thought. I could probably manage to act "normal" and give false answers to questions to play this game/popularity contest for the duration of an interview given plenty of practice, but once I was in the job 9-5 mon-fri I would find it hard to keep up the charade, and it would become quite obvious I was not what the employers thought at the time of the interview. At that point, if the employer considers such characteristics important, I am likely to find I am top of the list for not having their contract renewed or passing probation etc. So I do not see the point in trying to pretend to be something I am not in the interview.
Tried but only with a couple of companies who said no because it costs them lots to induct employees etc. Other excuse was "current economic situation" blah de blah. So yes a couple of companies is not many, but it was specifically targeted to the types of work I would like to do. I'm also aware, from reading these forums, many companies abuse such good will. There was a case reported of someone working voluntarily for Tesco near Christmas who had to purchase own uniform. Were told "you're doing well, keep on working hard, there's a job at the end for you" - and guess what happened after that. Yep, free extra staff over the festive period, fooled into working extra hard for the reward of a job at the end, which the Tesco store knew full well would not be offered. But yes, this is something to potentially look into.Googlewhacker wrote: »Maybe it is worth offering the companies around your area to work for them for 3 months on a voluntary basis, send out speculative letters and explain that all you would like from it if satisfactory is a referance to gain paid employment.
/me wonders what National Minimum Wage legislation was for if everyone is expected to work for free to actually get anywhere.
Would say the same about my Dad too. Parents split up when I was about 9, last saw him about 11, then more recently about 29. It's rather striking how similar we are in some ways, and while I guess I have less problems with eye contact than many on the spectrum do it was quite obvious my Dad had some difficulty with this - but somewhat understandable given the circumstances. Other thing I noted was when his new wife gave me a hug and she commented something like my Dad wouldn't like it. Well it was one of the things that I hated, and I still do if I feel down and want some "alone" time, but in general I have learned to overcome my anxieties in those types of situations, and return the favour appropriately. So eye contact and physical contact are two things I do reasonably well at.Neither DH nor his Dad have ever been diagnosed as having Asperger Syndrome, but knowing what I do now, and knowing several who are definitely on the spectrum, I'd put money on them both.
You may feel that the world would be a better place if AS was the norm, and that it's unfair of NTs to expect you to change the way you are. And I might agree with you. But I definitely adjust my communication styles between work (where most of my colleagues are very touchy-feely NTs), and home (where no-one does touchy-feely!)
I'm not sure about wanting AS to be the norm in the world - I think that kind of a world would be rather boring. Plus social skills are what made the Human Race particularly successful as a species (some suggestions lack of social skills in Neanderthals etc is part of why they all died off). But more consideration and adaptation, or in other words an acceptance of Neurodiversity, on the part of NT's would be nice sometimes. In fact the concept is one that nearly all experts on AS support, e.g. clicky
Somewhat relevant http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/16/aspergers-syndrome-employment-problemsWanted a job, now have one. :beer:0 -
1. It is not about the Best person for the job for me. It is about A person who can do the job. If I miss the best - unless it's a CEO role - pfft. The next best guy can still do the job. That doesn't seem fair to you, but it's practical to me as the employer.
2. Volunteering - you need a longer spell of reliabley turning up to do things on your cv. 8 to 10 weeks will not do it if you have never worked.
Yes, even if you dislike the actual activity. Because until you can prove you will turn up on time, not go sick, and be useful, for extended periods, it is going to be very very difficult for you. In view of what you need to get the volunteering to prove, I would relax your standards.
3. Job hunting is a numbers game. You seem able to communicate to me and I wouldn't neccessarily rule you out for anything customer facing. But if you are only doing a few applications you have very little chance. Therefore I would only dismiss roles with "counselling" or "empathy" or similar in the job description - the areaqs where you feel your condition will show at its most extreme - and just go for it on everything else. With most applications being by email these days you really don't have anything to lose, it won't even cost you a stamp.
4. I would also work on summarising your condition in fewer words, if you explain things generally like you are doing here - in great detail. Seriously your answers are very well considered but they are all very very LONG - That's fine for a message board, but busy people are going to need the key points faster. Also, "god, he took ten minutes to explain it - either he thinks I'm thick, or he has the worst version of this condition I have ever seen..."
So. Are you willing to compromise your current standards for your end goal?
(One more "yes but" and I'm done here :-) )
Good luck!Debt free 4th April 2007.
New house. Bigger mortgage. MFWB after I have my buffer cash in place.0 -
As I said feedback said "[FONT="]Candidate was technically strong and showed some good insights into related issues, his technical presentation was well researched and well delivered. He [/FONT][FONT="]lacked evidence of some of the key competencies needed for such a senior position, notably team working and customer appreciation.[/FONT][FONT="]" [/FONT]
.
perhaps thats the issue, you are going for senior jobs where the technical side is probably not as important as management/people skills. Not sure how anyone would get a senior position without any past job history.
So maybe go for something much more junior. Like the IT guys at a lot of works, there is always a few guys who are happiest sorting out issues with not much "customer" interaction, and others who are the chatty ones who don't fix much but decide policy.
So start at the bottom and work up. Thats what most people have to do. You then either head for more management positions or become more techincal (maybe be a contractor if suitable as that avoids the management side of things a lot)0 -
OK, as well as volunteering Wales, see if you can find something more local - volunteering plus your nearest town or the local authority area you live in. Also see if there is a space for you to offer your skills locally: you seem to have a fairly clear idea about what sorts of work you're interested in, but don't be too limiting and see what comes back.
For example, we use volunteers in the office in several ways. One checks supplies and sends out postal mailings (and makes a wicked cup of tea at regular intervals!) Another writes thank you letters and matches up groups who want a speaker with other volunteers who are willing to give talks. Another helps out by coming in to do odd jobs: laminating, filing, preparing publicity. One has worked from home whenever we're recruiting, sending out job packs by email (but we've now automated that process!) Someone's helped out with setting up a complicated spreadsheet for us - only a few hours work, but it may lead to more.
We also have quite a few people offering practical skills regularly.
You seem convinced that it's just your AS which is holding you back. That they'd decided prior to this last interview that they wouldn't appoint you, but were doing the box ticking thing. You could expend energy on finding out if this is the case, but it still won't get you the job.
BTW, I thought the bullet points you linked to were very good. Turning them into a one page summary to support your applications could be worth doing!Signature removed for peace of mind0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 247.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards