Advice Please - Verbal Warning
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Newman1000
Posts: 24 Forumite
Hi all
I would be grateful for a bit of advice please. My wife has worked as a Elderly Care manager for a number of years ( 4 in the current role) and has always received glowing reviews from both management and residents . However recently a new Home Manager has been brought in along with a number of new staff from the manager’s previous employment.
As can happen in these circumstances the whole working environment has changed which has resulted in my wife becoming quite stressed ( especially with staff phoning in sick at the last minute and my wife having to continue and work a further 12 hour shift , The Manager phoning on her days off with work questions etc etc) .
She has been looking to leave but this was brought to a head when the Manager called her in earlier this week and presented her with a Verbal warning for apparently telling an elderly resident that they were “lazy” . This was reported by another member of staff ( one of the new group) . Apparently the Manager carried out an investigation and decided to issue a verbal warning along with a 6 month improvement plan .
Firstly my wife disputes ever saying this and whilst I am sure I am biased I do believe her . Secondly there were no other staff in the vicinity and so the Home Manager has taken this other employee at their word . My wife has never ever received a warning of any nature before and has taken it quite badly. I personally think that this is a plan to manage her out considering the " crime" was so trivial
She has 5 days to dispute the warning. However my advice to her is that she is wasting her time ( The home is owner operated and HR is not a big part of the environment) as all it will do is paint an even bigger target on her back . I have suggested she just resign ( we are lucky enough that she does not have to work if push came to shove ) and leave with dignity intact .
Do people think it is worth disputing and taking further or just resign and move on ?
I would be grateful for a bit of advice please. My wife has worked as a Elderly Care manager for a number of years ( 4 in the current role) and has always received glowing reviews from both management and residents . However recently a new Home Manager has been brought in along with a number of new staff from the manager’s previous employment.
As can happen in these circumstances the whole working environment has changed which has resulted in my wife becoming quite stressed ( especially with staff phoning in sick at the last minute and my wife having to continue and work a further 12 hour shift , The Manager phoning on her days off with work questions etc etc) .
She has been looking to leave but this was brought to a head when the Manager called her in earlier this week and presented her with a Verbal warning for apparently telling an elderly resident that they were “lazy” . This was reported by another member of staff ( one of the new group) . Apparently the Manager carried out an investigation and decided to issue a verbal warning along with a 6 month improvement plan .
Firstly my wife disputes ever saying this and whilst I am sure I am biased I do believe her . Secondly there were no other staff in the vicinity and so the Home Manager has taken this other employee at their word . My wife has never ever received a warning of any nature before and has taken it quite badly. I personally think that this is a plan to manage her out considering the " crime" was so trivial
She has 5 days to dispute the warning. However my advice to her is that she is wasting her time ( The home is owner operated and HR is not a big part of the environment) as all it will do is paint an even bigger target on her back . I have suggested she just resign ( we are lucky enough that she does not have to work if push came to shove ) and leave with dignity intact .
Do people think it is worth disputing and taking further or just resign and move on ?
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Comments
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I work in a similar field. I answer the phone if I have the time. I generally 'plan' things at the end of shifts so don't work much over and I suggest your wife do the same as no one should do 12 hours shifts back to back. If staff are calling in sick then they need to micro manage them out the door if it's a frequent thing, but don't let it be your problem. (Anyone thinking I'm harsh - ive done the same job as the wife for a number of years - if you don't start saying no you might as well move in).
If it's a verbal warning I wouldn't worry as long as it's not gone on the file. I'm surprised they've given a warning, but the problem is probably the newbie.
Only problem with resigning is her notice but if you can manage ok financially I would definately put the notice in and if they like the work either sign up to agencies or see what other similar works out there. I wouldn't let it worry her. Tell her it's how some of them are and let it fly over her head:T:T :beer: :beer::beer::beer: to the lil one
:beer::beer::beer:0 -
dawyldthing wrote: »but the problem is probably the newbie.
Really?!
How do you figure? Because you've listened to a biased third party account of events and you believe that the internal disciplinary process of a company is wrong?
Some employers are like you.... A "newbie" puts in a complaint and you look at it with skepticism! I hate places like that.
Bottom line is that a complaint was made and the disciplinary process resulted in a verbal warning. Seems, to me, that the "newbie" had some sort of point (unless OP's wife is being managed out).
Advice to OP and wife:
1. A verbal warning is nothing. Just keep earning your coin and seek alternative employment in the meantime.
2. Don't call old people "lazy" if you have done so.... (of course the OP and wife will passionately deny this, but people can be right sneaky gets sometimes!)
3. Be un-contactable on her days off...0 -
Newman1000 wrote: »Hi all
I would be grateful for a bit of advice please. My wife has worked as a Elderly Care manager for a number of years ( 4 in the current role) and has always received glowing reviews from both management and residents . However recently a new Home Manager has been brought in along with a number of new staff from the manager’s previous employment.
As can happen in these circumstances the whole working environment has changed which has resulted in my wife becoming quite stressed ( especially with staff phoning in sick at the last minute and my wife having to continue and work a further 12 hour shift , The Manager phoning on her days off with work questions etc etc) .
She has been looking to leave but this was brought to a head when the Manager called her in earlier this week and presented her with a Verbal warning for apparently telling an elderly resident that they were “lazy” . This was reported by another member of staff ( one of the new group) . Apparently the Manager carried out an investigation and decided to issue a verbal warning along with a 6 month improvement plan .
Firstly my wife disputes ever saying this and whilst I am sure I am biased I do believe her . Secondly there were no other staff in the vicinity and so the Home Manager has taken this other employee at their word . My wife has never ever received a warning of any nature before and has taken it quite badly. I personally think that this is a plan to manage her out considering the " crime" was so trivial
She has 5 days to dispute the warning. However my advice to her is that she is wasting her time ( The home is owner operated and HR is not a big part of the environment) as all it will do is paint an even bigger target on her back . I have suggested she just resign ( we are lucky enough that she does not have to work if push came to shove ) and leave with dignity intact .
Do people think it is worth disputing and taking further or just resign and move on ?
I agree with daytona0. I'd add to their critique of the first response that I am struggling to see how you construct "i wouldn't worry unless it's gone on file" - this is a formal disciplinary prices with a six month improvement plan attached, so why would anyone think it hasn't gone on file? Disciplinary action goes on file- there's no point in having them if you don't do that!
But being totally objective about the facts here, I'd start off by observing that verbal abuse of the elderly in care is not "trivial", and if that is what you truly think name calling people in your care is, then you shouldn't be looking after people! It is irrelevant to this whether she did it or not. It's simply not a trivial thing.
As for the manager taking the other employee at their word - well you are expecting the manager to take her at hers, aren't you? Unfortunately this sort of thing happens a lot, and managers have to decide which version to believe. It is indicative of very little more than they have decided to make a judgement call - certainly, to construct this as a conspiracy to manage her out is something of a reach. If they were going to concoct a strategy for doing such a thing, wouldn't you exist that they'd do it a little better and concoct a better story?
Lastly, the outcome makes me wonder whether you have the whole story. A verbal warning for this, yes, ok. It shouldn't have happened if it did; and it shouldn't happen again. So verbal warning would be about what I would expect. But a six month improvement plan? How do you improve upon "don't do it again"? An improvement plan suggests that there are performance issues...
If it is her decision to resign, then that is up to her. But she needs to remember that any disciplinary action could be on a reference, and "resigned after being disciplined" might not be a great introduction to potential employers. However, if that doesn't bother her, then yes, if she wants to go then that would be the more realistic option. If she is that upset that she is going to resign over a verbal warning, then appealing doesn't seem worthwhile. She's just going to get more upset, and that seems pointless.
Just an observation, but when stressed, people often do things that are out of character, and don't always even realize that they have done them. Things are rarely black and white. Yes, there are all sorts of things in this story that suggest poor employment practices or bad planning, but that doesn't mean that she didn't do what was suggested. Under stress, frustrated and tired, it's easy to let something slip out that you might not otherwise do. It doesn't make it right, but it is human, and we've all been there at some time or another.0 -
Newman1000 wrote: »My wife has worked as a Elderly Care manager for a number of years
However recently a new Home Manager has been brought in
I'm a little confused by this, are an Elderly Care manager and a Home Manager different roles?Don’t be a can’t, be a can.0 -
Did they hold any kind of hearing or at least give her an opportunity to put her version of events before issuing the warning?
Because if not I think those are grounds for challenging it.
She should check their disciplinary policies to see if they have been followed.“I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse0 -
I probably worded it wrong, meant newbies as if a few come in at the same time it can change work dynamics:T:T :beer: :beer::beer::beer: to the lil one :beer::beer::beer:0
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I agree with daytona0. I'd add to their critique of the first response that I am struggling to see how you construct "i wouldn't worry unless it's gone on file" - this is a formal disciplinary prices with a six month improvement plan attached, so why would anyone think it hasn't gone on file? Disciplinary action goes on file- there's no point in having them if you don't do that!
But being totally objective about the facts here, I'd start off by observing that verbal abuse of the elderly in care is not "trivial", and if that is what you truly think name calling people in your care is, then you shouldn't be looking after people! It is irrelevant to this whether she did it or not. It's simply not a trivial thing.
As for the manager taking the other employee at their word - well you are expecting the manager to take her at hers, aren't you? Unfortunately this sort of thing happens a lot, and managers have to decide which version to believe. It is indicative of very little more than they have decided to make a judgement call - certainly, to construct this as a conspiracy to manage her out is something of a reach. If they were going to concoct a strategy for doing such a thing, wouldn't you exist that they'd do it a little better and concoct a better story?
Lastly, the outcome makes me wonder whether you have the whole story. A verbal warning for this, yes, ok. It shouldn't have happened if it did; and it shouldn't happen again. So verbal warning would be about what I would expect. But a six month improvement plan? How do you improve upon "don't do it again"? An improvement plan suggests that there are performance issues...
If it is her decision to resign, then that is up to her. But she needs to remember that any disciplinary action could be on a reference, and "resigned after being disciplined" might not be a great introduction to potential employers. However, if that doesn't bother her, then yes, if she wants to go then that would be the more realistic option. If she is that upset that she is going to resign over a verbal warning, then appealing doesn't seem worthwhile. She's just going to get more upset, and that seems pointless.
Just an observation, but when stressed, people often do things that are out of character, and don't always even realize that they have done them. Things are rarely black and white. Yes, there are all sorts of things in this story that suggest poor employment practices or bad planning, but that doesn't mean that she didn't do what was suggested. Under stress, frustrated and tired, it's easy to let something slip out that you might not otherwise do. It doesn't make it right, but it is human, and we've all been there at some time or another.
Even if there's an improvement plan it doesn't always go on file:T:T :beer: :beer::beer::beer: to the lil one :beer::beer::beer:0 -
Really? What kind of employers do you know? The only reason to not record an improvement plan is if you want to go straight to a tribunal without passing go.dawyldthing wrote: »Even if there's an improvement plan it doesn't always go on file0 -
Thank you all for your responses. After quite a bit of discussion we have agreed that she will resign . It seems that there clearly ( to our minds) is some agenda at work here and it is simply easier to just get out of it as soon as possible.0
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Newman1000 wrote: »Thank you all for your responses. After quite a bit of discussion we have agreed that she will resign . It seems that there clearly ( to our minds) is some agenda at work here and it is simply easier to just get out of it as soon as possible.
If she's not happy and you're not reliant on the income then it may be the best option. In these circumstances things rarely get better in my experience.
Good luck to her.“I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse0
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