Is it right that some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?

Former_MSE_Debs
Former_MSE_Debs Posts: 890 Forumite
edited 25 March 2014 at 12:59PM in MoneySaving polls
Poll started 25 Mar 2014

If someone needs to go into a care home, the value of their assets, including their home, is usually used to calculate what they pay. This doesn’t apply to couples when one is still living at home.

There are plans that only homes worth over £123,000 will be taken into account (currently, it’s £23,250). The most anyone needs to pay for care is £75,000 over their lifetime, plus £12,500 per year to cover bed and board. After that, state help kicks in.

Is it right some must sell their homes to pay care home costs?

Which of the options in this week's poll is CLOSEST to your view?



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Comments

  • lkmc01
    lkmc01 Posts: 967 Forumite
    My opinion is not there. We should not be living long enough to need care. The houses and the jobs should be left to the younger generations. Too many abandoned houses with no one living in them because they are 'in a home'.
  • SailorSam
    SailorSam Posts: 22,754 Forumite
    Combo Breaker First Post
    lkmc01 wrote: »
    My opinion is not there. We should not be living long enough to need care. The houses and the jobs should be left to the younger generations.

    What are you suggesting, euthanasia ?
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    What it may grow to in time, I know not what.

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  • mbb123
    mbb123 Posts: 352 Forumite
    personally i dont believe its as simple as the options make it here as there are several levels of care and several types of home. the basic care home cost should be covered from central funds and any health care costs funded from either n.h.s or other sources. but anything over and above that should be paid for by the individuals themselves.
  • carbut
    carbut Posts: 23 Forumite
    i think it unfair that someone who has worked all their life saved and brought a house should have to sell for care home fees while the person in the next chair to them who has squandered all their money on holidays , gambling and drinking and living in council rented housing has their care paid for by the government!!!
    If i knew then what I know now I would not have brought but would have stayed in rented accommodation .
  • Gavin83
    Gavin83 Posts: 8,749 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    In an ideal world everyone would have their care paid for by the state. We'd also all earn a million pounds a year and live in mansions.

    Given the current limitations I think the current system is best. I can see the opposite sides view but similarly why should a child inherit a house they've done nothing to work for while the state supports their parents? In the current system a child can still inherit the house, it just means they will need to support their parents in their old age. Few are willing to do this however.

    My ideal solution would be that the state wouldn't fund anyone but I think while we live in the UK this wont happen anyway.
  • jap200
    jap200 Posts: 2,033 Forumite
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    edited 25 March 2014 at 6:21PM
    Funnily enough this is very relevant as I am helping my in-laws with their finances and this is a hot topic of conversation. My father-in-law is adamant that he wants his children to inherit the value of the house he worked so hard for as well as the savings they have built up by scrimping and saving.

    However, this amount of cash would have been useful 10-20 years ago, but his offspring are now all very fortunate to be comfortable financially. Despite this he still continues to scrimp and save in order to leave an 'inheritance'. He wants the NHS or local authority to provide everything free "because I have paid my stamp" and refuses to pay for anything that he doesn't absolutely have to.

    He was utterly horrified when I explained the rules about care home funding (which may never be needed, but we were discussing all situations) and that the savings would be used and the house sold if both or the second of the pair of them need residential care.

    It seems fair to me that their assets (including home) should be used as they are 'spare'. In particular because part of the cost of residential care is to cover things you are going to pay for anyway such as gas, electricity, water, food etc. Why should you suddenly get those things free if the state/NHS paid the full care home fee when you didn't before and you can afford to pay for them?

    It also seems odd to treat a house differently to anything else - it is just an asset. Also, it is up to us as individuals (if we can afford it) to decide if we want to buy a house or not. If houses become protected assets then that discourages people to downsize to smaller properties.

    The flip-side is the equivalent aged couple without savings and paying rent. They will be still paying rent every month up to the end, whereas my in-laws paid their mortgage off 30 years ago and have been living rent-free, so no wonder they have built up more savings. The renters are not necessarily reckless spenders who have frittered it all away - although if they are - good on them. Life is for living, not scrimping - as I tell my father-in law - you can't take it with you.
  • Firemunchkin
    Firemunchkin Posts: 282 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker Name Dropper First Post
    edited 25 March 2014 at 7:47PM
    My grandfather was forced to sell his home of 25 years, the home he had shared with his late wife, in order to pay for any kind of care - not just to live in residential care. He was refused any kind of NHS nurse to visit him at home at all, and he used all of his savings paying for someone private. In the end, it came down to the last thing he had left - his home. He didn't have to leave it, he could quite easily have stayed living there but with regular home care workers visiting him daily. As a family, we lost a lot of memories from our childhood and a place where we all congregated regularly. Granddad passed away not long after leaving his home - having to move into a box room (which is essentially what they are) and leave all his familiar surroundings and possessions, and memories of his wife, ultimately killed him faster. Now as a family we don't have that central hub we used to gather together in, we've started to break apart. Of course I recognise there are other options and causes of this - but my granddad worked hard his whole life. He never claimed any benefits, never claimed job seekers, was never a burden on the NHS and never asked the state for anything. He worked hard to support his family, and to provide a good home for his children and grandchildren, paid his taxes and some. It was not fair for him to have to give everything up at the end, when if he had had nothing all along and been on benefits all his life he would have had all the care he needed for free.

    If our Government are trying to encourage society to work hard, to aim high and to move away from claiming benefits etc - then the best way to go surely is to change how this care is paid for and assessed. The current system acts as a deterrent to owning your own home in retirement, or making any effort to invest or make sure you are comfortable. Making it so that only other assets are included, or allowing people to get the NHS care they need and sell the property later to pay for it, or having a more realistic means test threshold. Let's face it, the majority of properties in this country cost well over £250,000 which will include the majority of home-owners by the time my generation comes to retirement. Someone who owns a £250k home is NOT wealthy. Look at the South East or London, you're lucky to get a flipping studio for that. Someone who has a home worth £1m is probably someone who has other assets - so go after the other assets. Liquidate the yacht, the cars, the investments, the bullion, the jewellery - whatever. The home is the most fundamental element of anybody's life - and nobody should be forced to give up their home in this way.

    And what is wrong with having something to hand over to your children? Most of us these days have no hope in hell of getting on the property ladder without our parents' financial help. The remainder of the money from my granddad's house was distributed in the will, and I got enough to have a small deposit on a property. Without it I'd still be saving in my 40s. So many other people I talk to who have just bought a property were in the same position - inherited funds. Whilst those who are not lucky enough to have this may think we have a sense of entitlement about it - we don't, we know how lucky we are, and we certainly would prefer to have come by the money another way, but the property market is out of control as it is - increasing property inheritance is potentially a way to calm things down and ensure more people can get on to the ladder in future generations.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,557 Forumite
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    My grandfather was forced to sell his home of 25 years, the home he had shared with his late wife, in order to pay for any kind of care - not just to live in residential care.

    He was badly advised. The value of your home is not taken into account when assessing whether you can afford to pay for your own care while you continue to live in it.
  • FelixTCat
    FelixTCat Posts: 31 Forumite
    edited 26 March 2014 at 8:26AM
    I think that it's necessary to consider the alternative before deciding this. Suppose someone has assets in a house of £200000. They go into a nursing home and the cost comes to £150000 over the rest of their life They leave £50000.

    Now say that the Government pays £50000 of the care fees. That person now leaves £100000. BUT effectively the Government (i.e. taxpayers) is giving £50000 of that money to the inheritors. Why should I, as a taxpayer, pay that person's inheritors £50000? Where is the fairness in that?
  • Could we please get rid of this cliche about people who are poor in old age having deliberately squandered all they had on booze/fags/holidays etc? There may be a few like that but the vast majority of people, particularly of the older generation, have worked hard all their lives and done the best they can with what they could earn. If they were in low paid jobs, perhaps they couldn't afford to save or buy a house. That doesn't make them profligate. We need binmen and shop workers and bottom wipers and cleaners and they work just as hard for their low wages and pay taxes just like higher earners. It makes me so mad when I see this stereotyping. Having a house and savings does not make you a better person than someone who doesn't have those things, and in a civilised first world country it is right that nobody should be abandoned in their old age. The basic system is that if you can pay for care, you do, and rightly so. A house is basically cash in the form of bricks and mortar. If you don't need it any more because you are living elsewhere, then of course it should go to pay for that care. If the heirs don't like that, then they can always take the old person in and care for them. And before I'm accused of not knowing what I'm talking about, we are currently selling my mother's ex-council house to pay for her £1k a week dementia care. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. She's lived to be 88, she doesn't know what day of the week it is, she needs care, she has the money in the form of a house. Simple. You can't have it both ways.
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