Land of Confusion

kennedy316 · 13 August 2014 at 6:14PM

Need help and advice so hoping somebody here can offer one or both.

Brief history is as follows -

Got into debt problems with fiancee
We ended up in a debt management programme where our debts were pooled and dealt with in a joint account
After a couple of years we were advised that DMP was not right for us and we switched to an iva in May 2008, again it was done jointly. Both our names appeared on insolvency register
Still struggled and defaulted on iva, it was terminated in Feb 2011.
As the majority of the debts were in my name I filed for bankruptcy which was completed in April 2011. After the iva was terminated we both disappeared from the register only for me to reappear when I was declared bankrupt.
Bankruptcy was discharged in Oct 2011 and I of course disappeared from the register again.
Checking out our credit reports with Equifax and experian earlier this year I found all of my debts were listed as settled and on my now wife's file it showed no record of any debts to her name or any defaults.
I therefore assumed that the debts had been all dealt with by the bankruptcy following the confusion caused by the joint DMP and iva.
However wife today has received a letter from a marlin financial who are chasing a sum that she owed to northern rock (just to confuse things further I had separate northern rock debt which of course was pooled with her when joint DMP and iva were set up.
I guess Marlin have bought the debt?

It is my understanding that there's some sort of time period after which a debt cannot be chased through courts or something and that this is five years?

Is this correct and if so when in the timeline if things does this period start? After the iva termination date or after the agreement was reached for the iva?

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere but alot if it confuses me and I'm not sure what my best course of action is from here.

longtermplanner · 14 August 2014 at 4:45PM

However wife today has received a letter from a marlin financial who are chasing a sum that she owed to northern rock (just to confuse things further I had separate northern rock debt which of course was pooled with her when joint DMP and iva were set up.

Neither the DMP nor the IVA will have pooled any debts. If they were solely in your name at the start then they will have been discharged by your bankupty. If they were solely in her name at the start or if they were in joint names, they will now be solely in your wife's name.

Yes it is likely that Marlin bought the debt from NR, see http://www.n-ram.co.uk/loans/sale-of-personal-loans/marlin-financial-group-ltd-transfer-faqs

It is my understanding that there's some sort of time period after which a debt cannot be chased through courts or something and that this is five years?

It is six years for an unsecured debt, twelve years for a secured debt. If this debt was included in your DMP, then it must have ben unsecured. Unless there was a shortfall on a mortgage repossession?

Is this correct and if so when in the timeline if things does this period start? After the iva termination date or after the agreement was reached for the iva?

The date will have been the last time anyone made a payment to the debt. I assume that would have been the last time your IVA IP made any payment. Do you know when you stopped making payments into the IVA? It seems unlikely from the dates that you have listed that this debt is currently statute barred.

How large is the debt? Is your wife in any position to make an offer to settle it?

National_Debtline · 14 August 2014 at 5:37PM

longtermplanner wrote: »

It is six years for an unsecured debt, twelve years for a secured debt. If this debt was included in your DMP, then it must have ben unsecured. Unless there was a shortfall on a mortgage repossession?

Hi there.

I'm just wondering if kennedy316 lives in Scotland? In that case it could be 5 years for unsecured debts and 20 for secured.

Very best wishes,

David @ National Debtline.

kennedy316 · 15 August 2014 at 11:18AM

Thanks for the responses. The debts are unsecured and as I'm in England its six years for the statute Barr.

Going from my records it appears that the payments to the iva stopped in October 2009 which means I have another 14 months before the six months is up.

Not really in a position to repay debt as I'm out of work and wife has just gone part time to do a uni course. I believe this has just come around now because my wife wax contacted by one of those PPI claims companies which I told her to ignore but clearly that flagged her presence again.

Bankruptcy is of course an option (debt is £15k) but that would create problems with her bank account for wages to go into (I don't have account since being discharged) and I'm not sure how it would affect her student loan, though I don't think it would affect it in anyway.

Am I right in thinking that the moment I acknowledge the Marlin letter the period for statute is null and void as its recognition of the debt? What will Marlins next move be? Their letter claims that they have contacted us before but they haven't (standard scare tactics I guess). I figure they'll apply for a ccj and if so what does that entail and how long does it take?

If they go that route but it is not done before October 2015 then does statute come into play or is it a case that as long as they apply for it before that date then its applicable.

I'm not saying that I'm considering that route but like to know where I stand before making any decisions or taking any action.

National_Debtline · 15 August 2014 at 12:50PM

Hello there,

Bankruptcy would cause issues with being able to open most bank accounts - although Barclays would still open an account. There should be no implications with student finance.

Acknowledging a debt in writing could reset the six year limitation period. The six years would run from the date of the last payment made from the Insolvency Pracitioner to the creditors.

if the debt is below £15,000, an alternative option could be a Debt Relief Order; more info here: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/37%20EW%20Debt%20relief%20orders%20%28DROs%29/Default.aspx

David.

kennedy316 · 15 August 2014 at 3:27PM

I've heard about accounts that you can open after bankruptcy but I was turned down by them even after discharge so hopefully she could do better.

The other complicating issue is that my wife does have other debts that weren't in the iva or were taken out after it defaulted and we thought she was in the clear. Combined they'd add another £2k.

kennedy316 · 26 August 2014 at 4:17PM

So another letter from Marlin today and I've done a bit of research into the company here -http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=686821&page=2

Not really sure how to proceed with this matter especially with yet another change in our circumstances. Not only am I unemployed and the wife (who's debt it is) has gone part time to be able to study but we have just discovered that we are pregnant with our third child.

So we don't own our home, have no assets to speak of and with only part time wage have a baby on the way. Having read the thread I've linked above it seems that Marlin demand the full amount (in this case £13k) or threaten to go to court. Obviously we have no way of repaying the full debt or making anything other than a token gesture of a payment each month so would they take it to court?

I don't understand all the various types of debt and how they're enforced (this is a northern rock loan) or the ins and outs of what a CCA is or where I stand if they can't produce it.

The loan is statute barred from October next year so obviously that isn't an option (waiting for the next 12 months to pass). The letter from Marlin states that if they don't hear from my wife then they may go the CCJ route or send a field agent round. What does a field agent entail? Can I refuse them entry etc?

Which option is better a CCJ or filing for bankruptcy? I have received advice from the national Debtline but its such a minefield I'm a little lost to be honest.

tigerfeet2006 · 26 August 2014 at 4:43PM

A CCJ is where you go to court and you agree a payment plan with the judge. This is a legally binding deal for both sides. If you fail to make a payment the creditor can go back to court and get an order for you to pay the full amount or court ordered bailiffs to come and take goods.

TBH I would say with your situation she may be better off looking at BR. Give National Debtline another ring and go through things again.

kennedy316 · 26 August 2014 at 9:30PM

I've contacted debt advice again but thought I'd post my comments here to see what advice you guys may have.-

The letter states that if she does not contact them then they will consider one of three options. These are -

A) Instructing a solicitor to review the account to determine whether the client should take legal action to recover the monies owed. The letter states that the current creditor is Marlin Europe VI Ltd which is surely part of the same group as Marlin Financial. From this it is clear that Northern Rock has sold the debt to Marlin after giving up chasing it five years ago when our IVA was terminated.

When they state that they will review the case does this mean that they have access to all of the corresponding documentation regarding the account from its inception through IVA to its termination? If so then will they take these factors into consideration when deciding whether to go to court or not? I have researched Marlin as a company and am troubled by reports of their business practice's which apparently include not accepting any offers of payment plans and requesting the full amount be paid immediately.

Instructing a field agent to make an appointment to visit our home to discuss circumstances and agreeing a payment plan.

They do not have our telephone number so I'm at a loss as to how they would achieve this. If an agent turned up in at our address are we obligated to allow them access to our property or can we refuse to allow them in?

C) An alternative debt collection agency being instructed to collect the debt.

Isn't this just Marlin selling the debt on again or would they just pass the dirty work onto another collection agency? In either case would this just mean that the other agency having to restart the process and having to follow the same guidelines?

I have also read from others who have had dealings with Marlin who claim that they have asked for evidence of the CCA but have been given nothing but excuses and stall tactics in regards to it being produced. It is my understanding that without the CCA certain debts are unenforceable in court, would a bank loan be included in this if it is the case?

I am very wary of dealing with this company and want to be clear on every option open to us before I confirm the debt to them.

Finally if it came down to it would bankruptcy be a better option than a CCJ? On top of the circumstances I have previously laid out to you we have just discovered that we are expecting another child in April so there is no way that we will be able to pay the debt in any way shape or form in the foreseeable future. Obviously bankruptcy is the final option and has cons attached to it but would a judge rule in favour of a CCJ given our situation? If we were taken to court but had no income that could realistically pay towards a CCJ then could it be thrown out of court and what would this mean for the debt?

Obviously the statute period would be void but would the debt still her owed and just put on hold temporarily?

longtermplanner · 26 August 2014 at 10:35PM

kennedy316 wrote: »

If so then will they take these factors into consideration when deciding whether to go to court or not? I have researched Marlin as a company and am troubled by reports of their business practice's which apparently include not accepting any offers of payment plans and requesting the full amount be paid immediately.

They can request all they like, that doesn't mean that you can pay it. I wouldn't expect them to spend much time reading up about the detailed case history. What matters is how much is owed now (HOW MUCH IS IT?), whether it was always an unsecured debt or was it a mortgage shortfall (WHICH IS IT?) and your wife's ability to make any repayment (SOUNDS ABOUNT NIL)

Instructing a field agent to make an appointment to visit our home to discuss circumstances and agreeing a payment plan.

They do not have our telephone number so I'm at a loss as to how they would achieve this. If an agent turned up in at our address are we obligated to allow them access to our property or can we refuse to allow them in?

They have no right to demand entry.

C) An alternative debt collection agency being instructed to collect the debt.

Isn't this just Marlin selling the debt on again or would they just pass the dirty work onto another collection agency? In either case would this just mean that the other agency having to restart the process and having to follow the same guidelines?

There is little point in speculating about this.

Finally if it came down to it would bankruptcy be a better option than a CCJ? On top of the circumstances I have previously laid out to you we have just discovered that we are expecting another child in April so there is no way that we will be able to pay the debt in any way shape or form in the foreseeable future. Obviously bankruptcy is the final option and has cons attached to it but would a judge rule in favour of a CCJ given our situation? If we were taken to court but had no income that could realistically pay towards a CCJ then could it be thrown out of court and what would this mean for the debt?

If it is taken to court then a CCJ will be issued unless it is statute barred or you have some CCA related defence. The fact that your wife won't be able to make more than token payments to a CCJ will not even be considered, it is not relevant. The only thing that matters is whether the money is owed.

kennedy316 · 26 August 2014 at 11:19PM

The debt is £13k and was a northern rock bank loan. We don't own a home and only asset is car which is worth about £300.

We haven't heard anything about the debts since our IVA terminated in January 2010.....we actually stopped payments to IVA in October 2009 following a change of circumstances.

As for ability to pay, she's just gone part time with work (teaching assistant) to take a three year degree course. I'm unemployed and the plan is that she will return to work as soon as she can and I'll be on baby duty. For the record I'm not claiming job seekers or any such benefit so don't have any 'income' so to speak.

Land of Confusion

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