DWP Council debts from 2008

paulnmusic · 27 January 2016 at 4:29PM

Hello All,

I am in a quandary, i was hit with 3 debts from court in 2008, long story regarding this, but not important now.
The three debts were 10,000 income support, 6500 housing benefit and two for council tax of around 1500 each.
i tried to appeal but was told i was out of date, i didn't know about the debt till 2010. So, since the i have questioned the debts and received very little aid in getting answers to my questions. I do not feel responsible for these debts and do not wish to be shadowed by them, but of course want to repay anything i do owe and move on with my life.
I have paid one of the council tax debts in full. The other i have sent in a letter from the girl i shared with stating she was responsible but they don't consider this enough evidence, they also have not pursued her for repayment, i was also in and out of this property due to other issues in my life at that time and could get evidence to prove this, but to be honest don't feel i should have to. Do i have to repay this debt from 06 - march 08 or is it deemed too old?.
The HB debt is for a property i moved out of in 2006 but they are claiming it all back from 2005 to 2008 as they have no evidence i stopped claiming or resided anywhere else, this is ridiculous as the keys were handed back to their HB office with a letter from my doctor advising me to relocate. I have been repaying this debt monthly to keep them at bay but don't feel it is warranted and also that the debt is too old to be chasing. Can i get this taken back to court or is there another way i can deal with this alleged debt?.
The third IS 10K debt has been paid at £1 a month for around a year but akin to the HB i feel this is not a realistic figure as i did not claim IS for 5 years, i was claiming sick for 6 months and also signed off twice in this period however as the court found me guilty of the entire amount and the appeal was too late i now find myself stuck with it. Once again, is there anyway i can have this challenged in court or dealt with in another fashion?.
To add, i have written to all parties explaining that the pursual of me is verging on a waste of tax payers money and that i had made an offer of around 25% as final settlement but no party accepted and issued letters to recovery agencies who have since been harassing my family and me.
Thank you in advance

Paul

National_Debtline · 27 January 2016 at 4:50PM

Hi Paul, and welcome to MSE.

From what you have described, if there has been court action then the debts age is no longer relevant. There is a piece of legislation called the Limitations Act but this is something that prevents a creditor starting court action if there has been a 6 year block of time with no payment, written acknowledgement or prior court action. From your post these debts were accrued between 2005-2006/08 and they went to court in 2008 - so I am afraid the age of the debts is very unlikely to be a factor.

Was this debt enforced in the Magistrate's Court or the County Court? Depending on which court they used to chase the money owed; it may influence how they can enforce the debt and how they deal with you.

Laura
@natdebtline

paulnmusic · 27 January 2016 at 6:05PM

Hi Laura,

The first and last time was in the magistrates court and i believe for a criminal case ( fraud ). I don't recall the actual debt ever being taken to any court.

Paul

debtdawg · 27 January 2016 at 6:45PM

I don't think you have any chance of having it written off if it is debt from DWP related to fraud, you will just have to set up a realistic payment plan with them. DWP fraud debts cannot be included in DROs or Bankruptcy, they are not time limited either.

paulnmusic · 27 January 2016 at 6:47PM

To add, I was sentenced for a crime in 2008, i was released and homeless for some time then once given a council flat in 2010 was told i had to repay the debt, i tried appealing but was told i was out of time to appeal.
so this has never been to court other then the criminal case and to be thrown out of court for the tribunal.

debtdawg · 27 January 2016 at 6:56PM

I imagine you were told you had to repay because you were in receipt of benefits of which they could deduct repayments from? Or because they had you tied down to an address. DWP fraud debts are apparently one of the debts they are pursuing heavily - I have an ancient one which I didn't go to court for, just had an interview (relates to misinformation by the jobcentre regarding child maintenance payments which wouldn't matter now anyway, they said I could do a private agreement/CSA with regards to child maintenance but never mentioned I had to let them know what the 'private' agreement was as it would affect entitlement) and they halved my entitlement to carers allowance last year in order to pay it back quicker than what it was being paid.

National_Debtline · 27 January 2016 at 7:14PM

debtdawg wrote: »

DWP fraud debts cannot be included in DROs or Bankruptcy, they are not time limited either.

Debtdawg is right I am afraid. If the DWP qualify an overpayment to be fraudulent then the money cannot be written off through any form of insolvency and it is very unlikely they will agree to write off any of this debt voluntarily.

I appreciate that the DWP may not have sued you in the county court for this money and the magistrate's court action could have been about the 'offence' and not necessarily about repaying the money. Unfortunately, once the debt is determined as fraud, the money is always owed and the Limitations Act no longer applies. Unfortunately, this seems to be what is happening, from what you have said, so you will need make a payment arrangement that is realistically based on your affordability to clear all the money owing.

Laura
@natdebtline

paulnmusic · 31 January 2016 at 1:39PM

hello

I understand your points and appreciate them, however i had read of a situation back in 2008 i think where upon the DWP lost a case in the supreme court for chasing debts from persons that are facing poverty and hardship.
I think it reads something like : The Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot sue benefit claimants for money it has wrongly overpaid them.

The Department for Work and Pensions was contesting a Court of Appeal verdict from 2009 which said the government could not recover overpaid benefits from claimants who were not at fault.

As i mentioned in the first statement, i do not agree with their findings and have supplied evidence to show that their records are wrong and they are placing me and my family in a very precarious situation, for a debt that is unfounded.

I have made offers to have the matter dealt with but they are insistent or reclaiming the full values. They also wont accept any offers of payment plans instead they have issued values of £100 month council tax, £76 month HB and said if these are not kept to they will place a charge on our home and proceed with a collection agency, which to add they already have done, which complaints have been raised as they parked across my wifes car and stopped her from leaving our home.

Kind regards, Paul

sourcrates · 31 January 2016 at 2:35PM

paulnmusic wrote: »

hello

I understand your points and appreciate them, however i had read of a situation back in 2008 i think where upon the DWP lost a case in the supreme court for chasing debts from persons that are facing poverty and hardship.
I think it reads something like : The Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot sue benefit claimants for money it has wrongly overpaid them.

The Department for Work and Pensions was contesting a Court of Appeal verdict from 2009 which said the government could not recover overpaid benefits from claimants who were not at fault.

As i mentioned in the first statement, i do not agree with their findings and have supplied evidence to show that their records are wrong and they are placing me and my family in a very precarious situation, for a debt that is unfounded.

I have made offers to have the matter dealt with but they are insistent or reclaiming the full values. They also wont accept any offers of payment plans instead they have issued values of £100 month council tax, £76 month HB and said if these are not kept to they will place a charge on our home and proceed with a collection agency, which to add they already have done, which complaints have been raised as they parked across my wifes car and stopped her from leaving our home.

Kind regards, Paul

Hi Paul,

As your situation is probably going to need some kind of legal help to tackle, I suggest you ask on this forum, they are much more geared up to advise on matters of a legal nature :

http://legalbeagles.info/about-lb/

emmsie123 · 31 January 2016 at 2:59PM

Handing the keys back to council, is not the same as ending an hb and ct claim.
This should have been done in writing, that the claim would have been ended from such and such a date.
They are different departments.
What happened with the income support how did that arise.

National_Debtline · 1 February 2016 at 7:04PM

Hello Paul,

I am afraid I am not sure what case law you are referring to below but there is something that you mentioned that I would like to address....

paulnmusic wrote: »

I think it reads something like : The Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot sue benefit claimants for money it has wrongly overpaid them.

The Department for Work and Pensions was contesting a Court of Appeal verdict from 2009 which said the government could not recover overpaid benefits from claimants who were not at fault.

If this is correct then it wouldn't seem to apply to you for 2 reasons (1). The DWP are not trying to sue you for the overpayment - they are deducting it from your ongoing awards (from what you have mentioned) and (2). The courts have determined that you are at fault because they used the Magistrates Court to pursue a fraud issue.

If you wish to challenge these decisions further then I think that Sourcrates is right, and you should try and get some legal advice on this matter. I appreciate that can incur costs so the legal beagles link is a good place to start. I hope you get it all sorted,

Laura
@natdebtline

DWP Council debts from 2008

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