How to Handle a Situation at Work

olgadapolga · 7 December 2017 at 7:03PM

My daughter has/had a Saturday job. She was asked to go in on a different day for an annual "review", which she did. At this "annual review" she was told that the company was downsizing and that they were giving her 4 weeks' notice. My daughter was very confused by the whole thing as she'd been expecting an annual review and instead seemed to be getting dismissed. The person dismissing her was very vague and didn't actually say that her employment was being terminated.

My daughter was given nothing in writing, so I said that she needed to contact the HR dept to get clarification of a few things, namely: when her period of notice was starting from, whether or not she'd be paid for the two days' holiday she was due, who to put down as a reference and whether or not she had to work her notice as she'd been told that she didn't have to, although the company "hoped that she would".

My daughter was then contacted by another member of staff so she replied to this saying that she wasn't sure what was going on, and did the other staff member have contact details for HR.

My daughter then got a phone call from the person who told her that she was being given notice as the other staff member had told him what my daughter put in the email (which was exactly as I put above, that she was confused and needed to speak to HR).

My daughter told him that she needed to speak to HR over some issues. He then said that her notice of termination had been sent as her employment was ‘not working out’. My daughter queried this as before he'd said it was due to downsizing (?= redundancy). He replied that there were complaints against my daughter, first that there were two complaints and then that there was a ‘log of complaints’ which were the reasons for her dismissal. My daughter again queried this, saying that he had previously stated it wasn’t her fault, to which he replied that he would get HR to call my daughter and that he was not going to discuss the matter any further with her. She said that surely if there were complaints against her then she should have been informed of them so that she would have the opportunity to change things. Up until then, my daughter was completely unaware of any complaints against her. The man said that he wasn't going to discuss it any further with her and that he'd get HR to call her.

We now have a problem as to how to deal with this. My daughter is understandably very upset about this as one minute she's being made redundant, the next she's being dismissed for incompetence.

My daughter has been there 13 months, since she was 16. She passed her probationary period of six months. If it's redundancy, they haven't followed the procedure that they usually follow (there was a redundancy round just after she joined). If it's dismissal because of her ability to do the job then they haven't followed the disciplinary procedure in the staff handbook.

We also have a question as to her hours: she works an 8.5 hour day and she started there when she was 16. She's now 17 and has been told by a friend that she shouldn't be working more than 8 hours a day? Another issue is her lunch break, she's supposed to have half an hour but rarely actually had a lunch break as no-one would cover her for it.

Obviously we need to contact her HR department but it's wording the letter/email which is the issue. Plus she's supposed to be working on Saturday with the person who dismissed her and she's really worried about it as he was rather unpleasant to her on the phone. I really don't know how to deal with this at all as I've never heard of anyone being dismissed because of downsizing and then being told it's because she's allegedly incompetent. If anyone can offer any advice then it would be hugely appreciated.

lincroft1710 · 7 December 2017 at 7:24PM

As she has been employed by the company for less than 2 years, she can be dismissed without reason (providing the dismissal is not discriminatory) but she should be given statutory notice and be paid for any untaken holiday

sangie595 · 7 December 2017 at 7:28PM

If she's been dismissed then she isn't working with anyone on Saturday. But as stated, at less that two years she has no right to claim unfair dismissal, so the reasons are irrelevant - with the exception of some limited circumstances that don't appear to apply to get, there's nothing she can do except claim her notice and holiday.

Fireflyaway · 7 December 2017 at 7:46PM

It sounds as though they haven't handled the situation very well but whatever the real reason they don't want / need her and there isn't anything you can do about that. Unless they have discriminated against her you don't really have grounds on which to appeal the decision. 16 year olds can work for 8 hours. Until recently many 16 year olds went into full time work don't forget.
I'd not waste time feeling angry. Let your daughter concentrate on finding another job somewhere where she is appreciated.

General_Grant · 7 December 2017 at 9:44PM

olgadapolga wrote: »

My daughter has/had a Saturday job. She was asked to go in on a different day for an annual "review", which she did. At this "annual review" she was told that the company was downsizing and that they were giving her 4 weeks' notice. My daughter was very confused by the whole thing as she'd been expecting an annual review and instead seemed to be getting dismissed. The person dismissing her was very vague and didn't actually say that her employment was being terminated.
Does she have any written particulars of her employment terms? Is there a term about notice having to be given in writing?

My daughter was given nothing in writing, so I said that she needed to contact the HR dept to get clarification of a few things, namely: when her period of notice was starting from, whether or not she'd be paid for the two days' holiday she was due, who to put down as a reference and whether or not she had to work her notice as she'd been told that she didn't have to, although the company "hoped that she would".

My daughter was then contacted by another member of staff so she replied to this saying that she wasn't sure what was going on, and did the other staff member have contact details for HR. Has your daughter got the contact details for HR yet?

My daughter then got a phone call from the person who told her that she was being given notice as the other staff member had told him what my daughter put in the email (which was exactly as I put above, that she was confused and needed to speak to HR).

My daughter told him that she needed to speak to HR over some issues. He then said that her notice of termination had been sent as her employment was ‘not working out’. Has this notice been received yet My daughter queried this as before he'd said it was due to downsizing (?= redundancy). He replied that there were complaints against my daughter, first that there were two complaints and then that there was a ‘log of complaints’ which were the reasons for her dismissal. My daughter again queried this, saying that he had previously stated it wasn’t her fault, to which he replied that he would get HR to call my daughter and that he was not going to discuss the matter any further with her. She said that surely if there were complaints against her then she should have been informed of them so that she would have the opportunity to change things. Up until then, my daughter was completely unaware of any complaints against her. The man said that he wasn't going to discuss it any further with her and that he'd get HR to call her.

We now have a problem as to how to deal with this. My daughter is understandably very upset about this as one minute she's being made redundant, the next she's being dismissed for incompetence.

My daughter has been there 13 months, since she was 16. She passed her probationary period of six months. If it's redundancy, they haven't followed the procedure that they usually follow (there was a redundancy round just after she joined). If it's dismissal because of her ability to do the job then they haven't followed the disciplinary procedure in the staff handbook. Is the staff handbook disciplinary section contractual or is it is excluded?

We also have a question as to her hours: she works an 8.5 hour day and she started there when she was 16. She's now 17 and has been told by a friend that she shouldn't be working more than 8 hours a day? That is correct - and not more than 40 in a week. Another issue is her lunch break, she's supposed to have half an hour (is that half-hour actually part of the 8.5 hours because that reduces the worked hours to 8 which is lawful) but rarely actually had a lunch break as no-one would cover her for it. If she does work then getting cover for a lunch break is the responsibility of management - she doesn't have to arrange cover.

Obviously we need to contact her HR department but it's wording the letter/email which is the issue. Plus she's supposed to be working on Saturday with the person who dismissed her and she's really worried about it as he was rather unpleasant to her on the phone. (Will there be other people around?) I really don't know how to deal with this at all as I've never heard of anyone being dismissed because of downsizing and then being told it's because she's allegedly incompetent. If anyone can offer any advice then it would be hugely appreciated.

...............

General_Grant · 7 December 2017 at 9:46PM

Fireflyaway wrote: »

It sounds as though they haven't handled the situation very well but whatever the real reason they don't want / need her and there isn't anything you can do about that. Unless they have discriminated against her you don't really have grounds on which to appeal the decision. 16 year olds can work for 8 hours. Until recently many 16 year olds went into full time work don't forget.
I'd not waste time feeling angry. Let your daughter concentrate on finding another job somewhere where she is appreciated.

Yes, 16 year olds can work 8 hours but it seems the poster's daughter may be working 8.5 hours. It's not clear whether this is because she isn't taking the 30 minute break to which she is entitled.

olgadapolga · 7 December 2017 at 10:25PM

@ General Grant:

She actually works from 8am to 5pm, so it's 8.5 hours excluding her lunch break. When she doesn't get a break then it's nine hours.

Does she have any written particulars of her employment terms? Is there a term about notice having to be given in writing? Yes, she has a contract and a policies and procedures handbook. Both of which state that notice MUST be provided in writing.

Has your daughter got the contact details for HR yet? Yes, as I rang another branch and asked them for it, without stating who I was or why I needed it. They advised that email is the best way to contact them.

Has this notice been received yet No.

Is the staff handbook disciplinary section contractual or is it is excluded? It states that it is non-contractual.

(Will there be other people around?) There may be other people around for part of the day.

Masomnia · 7 December 2017 at 11:41PM

TBH even if they aren't following contractual procedures she's very unlikely to win anything beyond her notice, which they've said she'll get paid anyway.

She might be able to bring a claim for unfair dismissal if she complained about her working hours and they sacked her for it. Sounds like a long shot though.

Time to move on to bigger and better things imho.

FBaby · 8 December 2017 at 10:48AM

Clearly there have been issues with her work and it sounds like her boss can't be bothered to work with her on these issues and has chosen the easiest route to dismiss her and employ someone else.

He clearly didn't want to discuss the issues with her initially but then got annoyed with her questioning so told her the truth.

Your daughter has two choices, think that he is a !!!!, move on and hope to find another job with a more pleasant manager, or consider why there might have been complaints made about her, and for the sake of insuring it doesn't happen in the future, humbly ask her manager to discuss these with her so she can learn from this employment and change her ways.

motorguy · 8 December 2017 at 11:48AM

FBaby wrote: »

Clearly there have been issues with her work and it sounds like her boss can't be bothered to work with her on these issues and has chosen the easiest route to dismiss her and employ someone else.

He clearly didn't want to discuss the issues with her initially but then got annoyed with her questioning so told her the truth.

Your daughter has two choices, think that he is a !!!!, move on and hope to find another job with a more pleasant manager, or consider why there might have been complaints made about her, and for the sake of insuring it doesn't happen in the future, humbly ask her manager to discuss these with her so she can learn from this employment and change her ways.

Thats it in a nutshell really.

I would say theres a significant learn for her in all of this - if she can take it on board.

How to Handle a Situation at Work

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