Death by dangerous cycling law would not improve road safety

trinidadone
trinidadone Posts: 3,337 Forumite
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in Public transport & cycling
Following the huge news coverage of Charlie Alliston, now 20, whom was convicted of wanton and furious driving on a push bike, will be sentence shortly, with a maximum sentence of two years.

Kim Briggs, 44, was killed in central London last year while crossing the road by Alliston.

Mrs Briggs husband, Matt wants to propose a change in law to include death by dangerous driving for cyclists. This is being supported by MP Andrea Leadsom - but would a propose change in the law improve road safety?

Do we actually know how many cyclists on our streets kill pedestrians? Is there not existing legislation in place? Police enforcement?

We know there has been as much as 500 deaths a year occur by motorists, and I suspect under 5 a year from cyclists (just a guess)

With such a small proportion from cyclists, my own view is the proposals will not improve road safety, although my deepest sympathy goes out to the Briggs family.
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Comments

  • Retrogamer
    Retrogamer Posts: 4,215 Forumite
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    Perhaps more focus and attention should be given to pedestrians who often walk out into the path of oncoming traffic without checking the road is clear first.
    All your base are belong to us.
  • Johnmcl7
    Johnmcl7 Posts: 2,816 Forumite
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    It was a terrible accident but it has been blown out of proportion, the only reason it's made so many headlines is because a death caused by a cyclist is so unusual whereas deaths caused by motor vehicles are so common they don't make the headlines. While I think it's a terrible loss for the husband, the calls for additional laws make it look like cycling killing pedestrians is a common problem and they're getting away with it. In addition, in his case the cyclist didn't get away with it and if the same happened again I'm sure they could use the same obscure law again.

    The Guardian had a good article putting it into perspective:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/25/perspective-needed-with-cycling-death-statistics
  • boliston
    boliston Posts: 3,012 Forumite
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    Retrogamer wrote: »
    Perhaps more focus and attention should be given to pedestrians who often walk out into the path of oncoming traffic without checking the road is clear first.

    just been to berlin and it's the complete opposite there - pedestrians will wait to cross a street even if no cars are in sight!
  • bouicca21
    bouicca21 Posts: 6,512 Forumite
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    People were prosecuted for this kind of offence in the 19th century, there's nothing new about 'furious driving' by cyclists.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
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    Matt Briggs is campaigning for a change in the law following the death of his wife.
    Chris Boardman is campaigning for cycle safety after his mother was killed whilst cycling.
    Train crash victims campaign for new rail signalling system.
    Families of drug victims campaign for changes to drug laws.
    Etc. etc. etc.

    Being an expert on what it feels like to lose a loved one doesn't make you an expert on road safety/railway signals/whatever. Furthermore, the brain judges probability by how easily something springs to mind, and not how likely it really is, so anyone who has had close involvement with an accident is not competent to judge risk.

    If you want to know about road safety, ask a statistician or a traffic engineer, not a victim/traffic cop/ambulance driver.
  • brat
    brat Posts: 2,533 Forumite
    jack_pott wrote: »
    If you want to know about road safety, ask a statistician or a traffic engineer, not a victim/traffic cop/ambulance driver.

    As a traffic cop, I deal with fatal/life altering RTCs on a regular basis. I'm LIO (lead investigating officer) for fatal & life changing collisions, and I'm sure we could offer a pretty accurate insight into the causes of serious road traffic collisions. I'm not sure why you think we couldn't.

    The quality of data used by statisticians in my opinion is one of the problems with understanding how best to deal with road safety. The data is too blunt, too capable of being clumped into categories that are too generic for proper understanding.
    For me, if you want to understand collision causation, ask a police collision investigator.
    Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
  • tho_2
    tho_2 Posts: 326 Forumite
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    I don't see why not. The fact is that the guys bike was dangerous, and not allowed on the road. If you drive a track racing car flat out through central London one of the charges (amongst many) if you hit someone would be death by dangerous driving.

    Yes people stepping out are a problem. But if the guy had brakes it would have limited the impact (don't believe for a second what he said in court). Furious riding of a bicycle or whatever it was isn't appropriate. Maybe not a new law, but a modification of the death by dangerous driving law I think is suitable.
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259 Forumite
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    Retrogamer wrote: »
    Perhaps more focus and attention should be given to pedestrians who often walk out into the path of oncoming traffic without checking the road is clear first.

    Likewise perhaps we could reduce cycling fatalities by giving more focus and attention to cyclists who ride up the inside of left turning HGVs and get killed.

    Oh but we can't say that without being accused of "victim blaming".
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259 Forumite
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    bouicca21 wrote: »
    People were prosecuted for this kind of offence in the 19th century, there's nothing new about 'furious driving' by cyclists.

    That is the issue, relying on a 19th century law to prosecute 21st century crime. A crime with a maximum sentence of just 2 years imprisonment.
  • brat
    brat Posts: 2,533 Forumite
    Johno100 wrote: »
    Likewise perhaps we could reduce cycling fatalities by giving more focus and attention to cyclists who ride up the inside of left turning HGVs and get killed.

    Oh but we can't say that without being accused of "victim blaming".

    It's usually only you bleating about victim blaming Johno, using it one way, as above, then the other way, in your determination to vilify cyclists.
    Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
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