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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 5th Mar 13, 5:24 PM
    • 2,324Posts
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    Former MSE Helen
    'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion
    • #1
    • 5th Mar 13, 5:24 PM
    'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion 5th Mar 13 at 5:24 PM
    This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.





    Please click 'post reply' to discuss below.
Page 1
  • AAAAA
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 13, 6:17 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Mar 13, 6:17 PM
    *waits for barrage of comments and comment wars*
  • Edwardia
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:31 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:31 PM
    How do they do it in the USA ? Uni education isn't free there.
    • worried jim
    • By worried jim 5th Mar 13, 7:35 PM
    • 8,698 Posts
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    worried jim
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:35 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:35 PM
    It certainly hasn't hindered admissions at Leicester's De Monfort University.
    "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein
    • tyllwyd
    • By tyllwyd 5th Mar 13, 7:56 PM
    • 5,365 Posts
    • 4,359 Thanks
    tyllwyd
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:56 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:56 PM
    I assume that paying tax does not bring the same problems as paying interest? Since the loan system will in effect be similar to a graduate tax for many borrowers, perhaps there could be an option to pay a graduate tax as an alternative for those with religious objections to a loan? (Edited to say - although I guess it would be hideously expensive to set up two systems so it's probably too late to go down that route.)
    Last edited by tyllwyd; 05-03-2013 at 8:02 PM.
    • NRTurner
    • By NRTurner 5th Mar 13, 7:59 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    NRTurner
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:59 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Mar 13, 7:59 PM
    I work at a university in an area with a high muslim population. It has deterred some from applying, but not as many as we had feared.

    I believe FOSIS - the Federation of Student Islamic Societies - was looking into this with a view to possibly offering financial help to students not wanting to take out loans.

    Either way, I think the government would have been better off introducing a graduate tax, and removing upfront fees.
    • callum9999
    • By callum9999 5th Mar 13, 8:02 PM
    • 3,907 Posts
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    callum9999
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 13, 8:02 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Mar 13, 8:02 PM
    Martin is clearly living in his own little world! I have no idea why he is "surprised" at the anti-Muslim ranting on his blog post - I'd be willing to wager that the majority of the country is Islamophobic in some form, even the people who are otherwise perfectly pleasant people.
    • callum9999
    • By callum9999 5th Mar 13, 8:03 PM
    • 3,907 Posts
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    callum9999
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 13, 8:03 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Mar 13, 8:03 PM
    How do they do it in the USA ? Uni education isn't free there.
    Originally posted by Edwardia
    Many aim for scholarships to pay for most/all of the fees and there are loan options available (though I don't think they are anywhere near as generous as ours).

    The expense of university in America is why they are always starting special college funds for their small children on US TV shows/films whereas we don't really do it much here.
    • torbrex
    • By torbrex 5th Mar 13, 8:16 PM
    • 67,660 Posts
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    torbrex
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 13, 8:16 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Mar 13, 8:16 PM
    Its their choice, why should a whole country pander to the choice of a single religious group?

    No-one was willing to enter into debt so that I could go to university so the choice was made and I didn't go and guess what, it had nothing to do with religion.
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 5th Mar 13, 8:50 PM
    • 15,275 Posts
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    antrobus
    What the Government needs to do is introduce a Sharia compliant student loan, where the student is required to repay an additional variable profit share calculated annualy. Which just happens to be at the rate of 3% above RPI inflation. That's the way that Islamic banking works anyway.
    • Nada666
    • By Nada666 5th Mar 13, 9:08 PM
    • 4,869 Posts
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    Nada666
    Only half of a generation of Muslims are affected by this - the other half have always been banned from education.
    • bylromarha
    • By bylromarha 5th Mar 13, 9:12 PM
    • 9,943 Posts
    • 13,236 Thanks
    bylromarha
    I'd be willing to wager that the majority of the country is Islamophobic in some form, even the people who are otherwise perfectly pleasant people.
    Originally posted by callum9999
    I'd agree. I started a thread a few months back saying how shocked I was at the anti islamic comments I was getting from the parents of the children I teach in primary school, and DT told me I was out of order for expecting parents to be happy to allow their kids to learn about Islam.

    If the government are unwilling to set up a suitable loan system for these students, I hope the Muslim community pulls together on this one and sets up some sort of Islamic credit union for its students who choose to follow Sharia law.
    Who made hogs and dogs and frogs?
    • callum9999
    • By callum9999 5th Mar 13, 9:31 PM
    • 3,907 Posts
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    callum9999
    Its their choice, why should a whole country pander to the choice of a single religious group?

    No-one was willing to enter into debt so that I could go to university so the choice was made and I didn't go and guess what, it had nothing to do with religion.
    Originally posted by torbrex
    How on Earth would anyone in the country have to "pander" to a religious group? It would take a couple of people in the education department less than a day to come up with a scheme suitable for them that wouldn't cost the taxpayer any more than the current one does.

    Congratulations - want a medal?
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 5th Mar 13, 9:44 PM
    • 23,843 Posts
    • 27,064 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    Isn't the issue going to university FULL TIME not going to university full stop? Nothing stopping anyone with no family savings taking a year or two out to save up, then continuing to work whilst doing a modular degree part time. Also the option for many families of selling property or getting an Islamic loan. And plenty of Muslim families are not that strict, it's hardly a whole generation.
    What a difference a day makes, twenty four little hours.
    • thistledome
    • By thistledome 5th Mar 13, 11:38 PM
    • 1,430 Posts
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    thistledome
    Only a very small minority of very devout Muslims will miss out on a University education solely due to having to pay interest. The rest will just get their loan (after having a whinge to show they don't like it), or get a job or do whatever they have to do - the same as everybody else has to.

    Don't expect sympathy from me. I didn't go to uni because I had to leave school and get a job to help out at home - like most working class people of my age. The entitlement generation need to get real.
    Love the animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harrass them, don't deprive them of their happiness.
    • zerog
    • By zerog 6th Mar 13, 8:13 AM
    • 2,302 Posts
    • 782 Thanks
    zerog
    To those saying "we should help UK nationals not foreigners". Eh? Foreigners don't get student loans. Im talking UK nationals - muslim ones!
    by Martin's tweet
    Don't have twitter so replying to Martin here - eligibility for student loans is not based on your nationality, it is based on where you have lived for the past 3 years.
    • sharnad
    • By sharnad 6th Mar 13, 8:16 AM
    • 8,562 Posts
    • 8,498 Thanks
    sharnad
    Only half of a generation of Muslims are affected by this - the other half have always been banned from education.
    Originally posted by Nada666
    any other lie you want to state
    Needing to lose weight start date 26 December 2011 current loss 60 pound Down. Lots more to go to get into my size 6 jeans
  • meher
    Martin is clearly living in his own little world! I have no idea why he is "surprised" at the anti-Muslim ranting on his blog post - I'd be willing to wager that the majority of the country is Islamophobic in some form, even the people who are otherwise perfectly pleasant people.
    Originally posted by callum9999
    It can be two sided as your post would suggest. I don't think such views are representative of Britsh people. Just look at the good responses being appreciated a lot more than the mindless ones . Labelling everyone as islamophobic is simply not smart or productive. It is not all about Muslims you know - this blog is about bigger values and fairness. Stop being so touchy.

    Truthfully here the sentiments are not strictly about Muslims, much as some of yu would like to flatter yourself. It is about non muslims feeling that they may not be treated fairly. When a section of people start acting precious, there will always be conflict. Look at all those special allowances for disabled people, black people, unemployed people etc - when they have special allowances it will not be met with or accepted by others, uncritically, and so it should be. Everything should be questioned and a possible provision of sharia products for muslim students being debated is no different. I am not a fan of anyone who starts bleating islamophoia, benefit basher, bigot, racist etc - most of the time it is more a reflection of their own deep seated insecurities than the islamophobia they accuse others of. Other than that when we start calling people islamophobics it simply suggests that we are not intellectually equipped to consider the nuances of the issues being raised. Like Ted on dt always says sympathisers of all brands do come up with thought terminating rhetoric on every thread with a bang but rarely of any substance. Frankly, being a muslim or islam is not that important, sorry to disappoint you. The issue here is one about offering options for financing education for students from different communities, that the question affects muslims is just incidental, it is about students from some communities who might be disadvantaged if they didn't have access to education and I think there should be choice of resources to fund their educational needs and this says it succintly enough for me:
    If we could find a system where Muslim students have access to finance at the same cost, with no benefit (equality is key) but that is sharia compliant, I think it important.
    • N1AK
    • By N1AK 6th Mar 13, 9:05 AM
    • 2,847 Posts
    • 3,793 Thanks
    N1AK
    When a section of people start acting precious, there will always be conflict.
    Originally posted by meher
    Their religion bars them from taking loans and they are asking for an option that fits with that belief to be offered; it's hardly precious and given the ease of providing this for them it is entirely-unreasonable not to. I have absolutely no doubt that it is intolerance of muslims that is driving many, if not most, of opposing comments.
    Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...
    • ccbrowning
    • By ccbrowning 6th Mar 13, 9:11 AM
    • 204 Posts
    • 240 Thanks
    ccbrowning
    On the face of it I don't see the problem as long as it isn't giving a certain group easier access to education. If one is following strict sharia tenants and can't get an education due to interest, then yes they are disadvantaged I suppose...but where do you draw the line? Interest isn't even explicitly forbidden and it's all a manner of interpretation. There are numerous groups in the UK, religious or otherwise, so it is rather hard to come up with special accommodating for everyone.

    Interest-free student loans for everyone, I say.
    Two year mortgage overpayment:
    £6000 of £18000
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