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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 6th Dec 12, 12:02 PM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    'Shame on Nationwide – no, I won't give you my security details' blog discussion
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 12, 12:02 PM
    'Shame on Nationwide – no, I won't give you my security details' blog discussion 6th Dec 12 at 12:02 PM
    This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.





    Please click 'post reply' to discuss below.
Page 1
    • lemontart
    • By lemontart 6th Dec 12, 12:20 PM
    • 5,757 Posts
    • 7,242 Thanks
    lemontart
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 12, 12:20 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 12, 12:20 PM
    I will never give details to such callers - like you I will locate a number myself to call them to see if genuine
    I am responsible me, myself and I alone I am not the keeper others thoughts and words.
    • ringo_24601
    • By ringo_24601 6th Dec 12, 12:26 PM
    • 15,809 Posts
    • 25,026 Thanks
    ringo_24601
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 12, 12:26 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 12, 12:26 PM
    I like to ask them questions that they should know about me. Asking my current balance, what my address is ect... pulls the power back in your direction
    • HappyBunny
    • By HappyBunny 6th Dec 12, 12:48 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    HappyBunny
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 12, 12:48 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 12, 12:48 PM
    A few years ago they called me at work - asking personal questions such as DOB etc.

    Martin - what do Nationwide have to say about these calls?
    • Simon_c
    • By Simon_c 6th Dec 12, 1:11 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    Simon_c
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:11 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:11 PM
    I get really cross with these calls too. It's bad enough when it's a genuine reason for the call, but when you call back on the published customer service number and they have no record of the call or why it just gets worse. I normally ask them how I know it's whatever bank it is, and that normally flummoxes them. The only time I was presently surprised by the way the call worked out was when it was Barclays security who were querying a transaction. They seemed fine that I wouldn't give security details, and went ahead with explaining the problem anyway. I've been on at every institution who calls me for ages how bad this is, and how it trains their customers in insecure practices, but nobody listens. It needs someone with the clout of you Martin to really embarrass them into sharpening up their practices.
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 6th Dec 12, 1:24 PM
    • 11,399 Posts
    • 11,081 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:24 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:24 PM
    I like to ask them questions that they should know about me. Asking my current balance, what my address is ect... pulls the power back in your direction
    Originally posted by ringo_24601
    Surely they can't answer that until you have been through security...
  • beniamino
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:43 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:43 PM
    I've had exactly the same kind of call from Lloyds TSB. The caller refused to give his name or where he was calling from (just "This is his bank"). He then tried to get me to give out my address and other personal details. I asked how I could know that he was a genuine caller, and got no satisfactory reply.

    If people get used to answering these kinds of questions to cold callers, it will be a gift for identity thieves.
  • enomis
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:47 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 12, 1:47 PM
    It has happened to me too, very recently with HSBC. Seems like they are all at it!
  • jamesd
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 12, 2:30 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 12, 2:30 PM
    It's quite common and your responses are similar to my own, where I'll typically ask the caller to authenticate themselves before disclosing personal information.

    The automated transaction check calls made by some institutions require you to give personal information to an electronic voice call to authenticate. That's spectacularly insecure, training their customers to act wrongly and IMO should be prohibited by their regulator.

    You're a higher risk target than I am, though, so have to be even more cautious than most, as do any of your employees and family or friends who might be asked about you or for personal information about you that might conceivably be used in some security questions somewhere.

    If I have reason to expect the call I will sometimes ask the caller to add up the day and month of my date of birth to demonstrate that they know those two numbers, without them actually compromising that information. Similar alternative ways can sometimes be used to confirm knowledge of other data without actually disclosing the data.

    BTW Martin, what's your favourite colour? No, don't answer, it's a fairly common security question. So you need to be giving something other than the truth for one of the security or non-security contexts. Someone who can do research on you could probably get enough details to pass the alternative security authentication for a Standard Life pension if you had one of those. Not uncommon at other places for their backup questions to have answers that are readily researchable.

    I suppose now's a somewhat appropriate time to welcome you to the high net worth world and suggest that you consider asking your financial institutions to require a secondary security check like an additional code word only known to you and them before providing information. It's only a matter of time before you're attacked.
    Last edited by jamesd; 06-12-2012 at 2:34 PM.
    • ringo_24601
    • By ringo_24601 6th Dec 12, 2:35 PM
    • 15,809 Posts
    • 25,026 Thanks
    ringo_24601
    Surely they can't answer that until you have been through security...
    Originally posted by JimmyTheWig
    haha, no they won't.. The only proper way to deal with it is to give the company a ring back and ask what the problem is.

    Then you can get very angry if it's a marketing call

    BTW Martin, what's your favourite colour? No, don't answer, it's a fairly common security question. So you need to be giving something other than the truth for one of the security or non-security contexts. Someone who can do research on you could probably get enough details to pass the alternative security authentication for a Standard Life pension if you had one of those. Not uncommon at other places for their backup questions to have answers that are readily researchable.
    Ideally, you should have all those 'questions' as passwords, and nothing to do with the question, and not re-use them between systems.

    Oh, one day I should practice what I preach - but it will need me to write all the passwords/answers down or you'd go insane trying to remember them all
    • KTF
    • By KTF 6th Dec 12, 3:24 PM
    • 4,441 Posts
    • 1,791 Thanks
    KTF
    If you 'never give personal information to people on the phone' then I assume that you never have cause to phone up any company that requires some sort of authentication?

    I dont see the issue in confirming your postcode or part of your address. The only password the bank will ask for is bits of your phone banking password (if you are registered for it) which (assuming you are not daft) will be different to your online banking one anyway.

    Phone calls like this are almost always marketing calls anyway but sometimes they do call to check credit card purchases so if you have ordered something pricey, I look forward to a blog about you moaning about how it didnt get delivered because of 'stupid' bank process.
    • Nile
    • By Nile 6th Dec 12, 3:31 PM
    • 14,037 Posts
    • 13,889 Thanks
    Nile
    I get really cross with these calls too. It's bad enough when it's a genuine reason for the call, but when you call back on the published customer service number and they have no record of the call or why it just gets worse. I normally ask them how I know it's whatever bank it is, and that normally flummoxes them. The only time I was presently surprised by the way the call worked out was when it was Barclays security who were querying a transaction. They seemed fine that I wouldn't give security details, and went ahead with explaining the problem anyway. I've been on at every institution who calls me for ages how bad this is, and how it trains their customers in insecure practices, but nobody listens. It needs someone with the clout of you Martin to really embarrass them into sharpening up their practices.
    Originally posted by Simon_c
    Yes, I had a good opinion of Barclays Bank when they called my home. It was frustrating that they wouldn't discuss why they wanted to speak to my OH (who was out when they rang) but I was impressed when they rang back and spoke to my OH...........to discover that they were concerned about unusual activity on the credit card.

    Barclays Bank seem to be pretty good.

    I'm a customer of the Nationwide but I've never had a phone call from them. My experience has been very good so far. When I go into the Nationwide branch, the staff are very friendly and polite.
    • adecor
    • By adecor 6th Dec 12, 3:52 PM
    • 262 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    adecor
    Had this with Metro too
  • henry bananas
    They would not stop pestering me with calls and text messages asking to ring back.

    When I did ring - they didn't know what I was contacted for!

    This went on for about 3 weeks!!!

    on a side note I don't think Nationwide are too bad as it goes it is just this daft problem I had with them.
    • ellie99
    • By ellie99 6th Dec 12, 5:06 PM
    • 1,379 Posts
    • 10,099 Thanks
    ellie99
    I've had this with the Royal Bank of Scotland, I complained to my local branch, and haven't been contacted again. (Also hate the way the tellers count out loud if I'm getting cash at the counter, there's a queue of people watching and listening!)
    My son had a call from his bank today because he had had a large sum paid in to his current account (from another bank) and they wanted to check he was entitled to it!
    • LardyCake
    • By LardyCake 6th Dec 12, 6:14 PM
    • 276 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    LardyCake
    Yes I've had this type of call, I always refuse to give them any information and explain why - "I don't know who you are". I ask which department they are from and call the published number.

    Martin, I'm surprised you've only just become aware of this issue but hopefully you can make the banks, credit card companies and the public see why this is such bad practice. Good luck.

    One possible solution: to amend their systems so you can set-up a "reverse password" which you can ask the person calling for (in whole or part).
    • callum9999
    • By callum9999 6th Dec 12, 6:16 PM
    • 3,905 Posts
    • 2,369 Thanks
    callum9999
    I've had this with the Royal Bank of Scotland, I complained to my local branch, and haven't been contacted again. (Also hate the way the tellers count out loud if I'm getting cash at the counter, there's a queue of people watching and listening!)
    My son had a call from his bank today because he had had a large sum paid in to his current account (from another bank) and they wanted to check he was entitled to it!
    Originally posted by ellie99
    Surely all bank tellers do that? It's standard practise to show you that they are in fact handing you the right amount of money - otherwise you could just step away from the counter, slip a note in your pocket and complain you were short changed.
    • ellie99
    • By ellie99 6th Dec 12, 6:52 PM
    • 1,379 Posts
    • 10,099 Thanks
    ellie99
    Surely all bank tellers do that? It's standard practise to show you that they are in fact handing you the right amount of money - otherwise you could just step away from the counter, slip a note in your pocket and complain you were short changed.
    Originally posted by callum9999
    I see your point Callum, hadn't thought of that.
    A couple of times I've withdrawn enough to buy a second hand car, it made me really uncomfortable to know the queue behind me would hear how much I was leaving with, maybe it's because I'm female? I asked the teller to not say it out loud, they were ok with that.
  • jamesd
    If you 'never give personal information to people on the phone' then I assume that you never have cause to phone up any company that requires some sort of authentication?
    Originally posted by KTF
    If you are phoning the company at one of the numbers that you already know for it, you can be sure that you are speaking with a representative of the company. The problem is if you receive a call, because calling line identification can be forged, so you have no reliable initial indication of whether it is the bank or me or a criminal or a radio host calling you to obtain details.
    • sidsmum
    • By sidsmum 6th Dec 12, 8:45 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 178 Thanks
    sidsmum
    I had a call from my Bank once offering me a loan, "But first can I take some security details?" I said they couldn't as I hadn't asked them to phone me and I didn't want a loan anyway. I was quite annoyed at the time.
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