Is this a loss of bargain and what can I do??
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Jak_Cal
Posts: 3 Newbie
Hi Everyone,
I apologise for a long post and if this has been posted in the wrong forum (mods please move if incorrect). I've just read your successes on the B&Q dishwasher case and the recent pages in the Rainwater Tank saga and I'm hoping for some concrete advice on how to proceed. I have asked this question on another site and been told there are legal grounds under contract law, but I would like to know what those grounds are and how I should proceed to maximise my chances of success.
I ordered a corner group sofa online from a catalogue a few days ago. The price on the site was £99, and so I thought that it was on clearance. I added it to my credit account, within a few minutes I had the email confirmation stating clearly I'd ordered a corner group and off I went to bed!
Yesterday, my SIL was babysitting for me when the delivery arrived (I wasnt expecting it yet). When I got home I discovered that I'd actually received a footstool! I've double checked the email confirmation and it definitely states that I've ordered a corner group with no mention of a footstool. I've also checked the website and this sofa is no longer online (on that site), but is still available to order on others within the group. I've also noticed the RH version is £999.00 (I didn't check this one at the time of ordering or the book), to add to the confusion they don't sell a footstool in this range and the cat. no doesn't exist either. So I don't understand how I've received one? Lastly to further confuse, my account states that I ordered a footstool (which is not what I ordered and not what the email stated). I hadn't been onto the site until last night and didn't know that the account stated footstool.
Today I rang their CS and was told that I'd ordered a footstool, when I informed them I received an email confirmation stating corner group. I was then told it was out of stock, she said that she could order the RH version instead for £999 (upto this point I don't think the lady realised that I ordered at £99). I explained that I was happy to accept the RH version instead at the original price I ordered at, I was then advised that I needed to call the "Directors Office" whom apparently deal with escalated queries.
The "Directors Office" have arranged for a call-back on Monday.
I also rang Consumer Direct whom stated that the catalogue co. are in breach of SOGA as the goods are "not as described" and if they made a mistake they should be honouring it, however "I couldn't force them to supply me with what I ordered, but I shouldn't be penalised if I want to return the goods for a full refund". (How can I order an item which doesn't exist on their website or in their book either by description or cat. no.). Consumer Direct also said they would pass it onto TS and in the meantime to write to the catalogue giving them 7 days to supply the correct goods, but apart from that there was nothing else I could do.
Can you please advise:
1. Does the catalogue have a legal responsibility to send me the correct item as per their email?
2. As I've added it to my credit account does that go against me?
3. Any info that would maximise my chances of success?
Catalogue T&C's:
When you submit an order to us on our website you will receive a 'bounce back' confirmatory email of this order saying that we are processing your order. You will then receive a second email from us acknowledging your order and giving you estimated timescales for delivery. You should check both emails for accuracy and let us know immediately if there are any errors. Neither of these emails constitute acceptance of the order by us. Your order will be accepted by us (and a contract will then be formed between us) when we despatch the goods to you. Title to the goods will pass to you on delivery.
Oh I forgot to mention, I have several screen prints taken at the time of ordering which clearly show the corner group. I now do this as a matter of course as something similar happened to me and I was advised to do this in future.
Based on the impression I got from Consumer Direct writing to the company sounds to me Like I'm depending on the catalogue's goodwill to honour the contract. I don't hold out much hope unless I'm forearmed with as much info as possible before this callback on Monday.
Again, I apologise for a long post but I wanted to be as informative as possible.
Many thanks for any advice given
I apologise for a long post and if this has been posted in the wrong forum (mods please move if incorrect). I've just read your successes on the B&Q dishwasher case and the recent pages in the Rainwater Tank saga and I'm hoping for some concrete advice on how to proceed. I have asked this question on another site and been told there are legal grounds under contract law, but I would like to know what those grounds are and how I should proceed to maximise my chances of success.
I ordered a corner group sofa online from a catalogue a few days ago. The price on the site was £99, and so I thought that it was on clearance. I added it to my credit account, within a few minutes I had the email confirmation stating clearly I'd ordered a corner group and off I went to bed!
Yesterday, my SIL was babysitting for me when the delivery arrived (I wasnt expecting it yet). When I got home I discovered that I'd actually received a footstool! I've double checked the email confirmation and it definitely states that I've ordered a corner group with no mention of a footstool. I've also checked the website and this sofa is no longer online (on that site), but is still available to order on others within the group. I've also noticed the RH version is £999.00 (I didn't check this one at the time of ordering or the book), to add to the confusion they don't sell a footstool in this range and the cat. no doesn't exist either. So I don't understand how I've received one? Lastly to further confuse, my account states that I ordered a footstool (which is not what I ordered and not what the email stated). I hadn't been onto the site until last night and didn't know that the account stated footstool.
Today I rang their CS and was told that I'd ordered a footstool, when I informed them I received an email confirmation stating corner group. I was then told it was out of stock, she said that she could order the RH version instead for £999 (upto this point I don't think the lady realised that I ordered at £99). I explained that I was happy to accept the RH version instead at the original price I ordered at, I was then advised that I needed to call the "Directors Office" whom apparently deal with escalated queries.
The "Directors Office" have arranged for a call-back on Monday.
I also rang Consumer Direct whom stated that the catalogue co. are in breach of SOGA as the goods are "not as described" and if they made a mistake they should be honouring it, however "I couldn't force them to supply me with what I ordered, but I shouldn't be penalised if I want to return the goods for a full refund". (How can I order an item which doesn't exist on their website or in their book either by description or cat. no.). Consumer Direct also said they would pass it onto TS and in the meantime to write to the catalogue giving them 7 days to supply the correct goods, but apart from that there was nothing else I could do.
Can you please advise:
1. Does the catalogue have a legal responsibility to send me the correct item as per their email?
2. As I've added it to my credit account does that go against me?
3. Any info that would maximise my chances of success?
Catalogue T&C's:
When you submit an order to us on our website you will receive a 'bounce back' confirmatory email of this order saying that we are processing your order. You will then receive a second email from us acknowledging your order and giving you estimated timescales for delivery. You should check both emails for accuracy and let us know immediately if there are any errors. Neither of these emails constitute acceptance of the order by us. Your order will be accepted by us (and a contract will then be formed between us) when we despatch the goods to you. Title to the goods will pass to you on delivery.
Oh I forgot to mention, I have several screen prints taken at the time of ordering which clearly show the corner group. I now do this as a matter of course as something similar happened to me and I was advised to do this in future.
Based on the impression I got from Consumer Direct writing to the company sounds to me Like I'm depending on the catalogue's goodwill to honour the contract. I don't hold out much hope unless I'm forearmed with as much info as possible before this callback on Monday.
Again, I apologise for a long post but I wanted to be as informative as possible.
Many thanks for any advice given
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Comments
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Sounds to me like an open and shut case of Loss of Bargain (I was one of the people who successfully claimed against B&Q for the Zanussi dishwasher btw).
Consumer Direct are as much use as a chocolate teapot when it comes to things like this; their 'advisers' are not legally qualified but just call centre operatives reading a script off a fairly basic flowchart which doesn't cover the more sophisticated remedies (I've actually seen their flowcharts).
My past experience with Trading Standards suggests they're not very clued up either when it comes to Loss of Bargain, and have been known to give some shockingly bad advice to people in this position.
My main piece of advice to you if you wish to claim Loss of Bargain is to be strong willed. The company will almost certainly say that no such remedy exists in law; either through ignorance or a deliberate attempt to throw you off the scent, they will chant the erroneous old wives tale that the remedy for breach of contract is to restore the injured party to the pre-contract position (the remedy is actually to put the injured party in the position they would have been in if the contract had been performed).
You are going to have to stand very firm, fire off a Letter Before Action citing the relevant law (below), and then probably a county court claim. Personally I wouldn't bother getting into any telephone conversations with them; the chances of any company giving you Loss of Bargain damages over the phone are about zero.
Robinson v Harman [1848] is the case authority for the remedy.
The measurement of damages comes from the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
While s.51(3) Sale of Goods Act 1979 applied in the B&Q case, as we didn't receive any delivery at all, your case is slightly different as they've sent a product of lower value instead, so you'll need s.53(3) which measures the damages as the difference between the value of the goods received and the value they would have had if the contract had been performed - £900 by my reckoning.
The fact that you've paid on a credit account doesn't change anything, it's still a binding contract and valid payment.0 -
Catalogue T&C's:
When you submit an order to us on our website you will receive a 'bounce back' confirmatory email of this order saying that we are processing your order. You will then receive a second email from us acknowledging your order and giving you estimated timescales for delivery. You should check both emails for accuracy and let us know immediately if there are any errors. Neither of these emails constitute acceptance of the order by us. Your order will be accepted by us (and a contract will then be formed between us) when we despatch the goods to you. Title to the goods will pass to you on delivery.
B&Q's T&C's were somewhat different; theirs stated that a contract was formed when a confirmation email was received.
If the company have dispatched the footstool to you, then by their terms & conditions it looks as though you have yourself a contract. Check out my blog http://iwantmywaterbutt.blogspot.com/ for guidance on how to proceed with a Loss of Bargain claim.0 -
If I was defending the company concerned I would be questioning whether you thought there was a mistake to begin with as it is unusual to take screen prints of a purchase yet claim you thought it was reduced. Having said that, Law is law and the outcome must follow that. Just be prepared for that question to be raised. B&Q was different because it had a genuine sale.
Does the second email you received state it was a corner sofa, this would be the one which formed the contract. If it did, then I would then write to them with the basis of the law and then sue them for the sum of £900 plus the claim fee.
This won't prove a popular thread but I wish you well. Be prepared to ride the wave, ignore threats and silly offers from the company and their lawyers.0 -
Good Morning to you all and thanks for your replies so far!TBeckett100 wrote: »If I was defending the company concerned I would be questioning whether you thought there was a mistake to begin with as it is unusual to take screen prints of a purchase yet claim you thought it was reduced. Having said that, Law is law and the outcome must follow that. Just be prepared for that question to be raised. B&Q was different because it had a genuine sale.
Does the second email you received state it was a corner sofa, this would be the one which formed the contract. If it did, then I would then write to them with the basis of the law and then sue them for the sum of £900 plus the claim fee.
This won't prove a popular thread but I wish you well. Be prepared to ride the wave, ignore threats and silly offers from the company and their lawyers.
I didn't get a 2nd email, the goods just arrived. After speaking to my wife (who normally orders) this happens frequently.
In December I advised "C*hoice" that the leather suite I'd received in July had started to crack and it appeared that from reading other cutsomer reviews on their website that I wasn't the only one. C*hoice arranged for a company called Homeserve to inspect the sofa and the gentleman that arrived took one look at it and said that it was a manufacturing fault as the wrong part of te hide had been used. he spent a further 40 minutes taking photos and completing docs on his pda and said that the catalogue would be intouch with me. Later that evening we ad a call to say that they would either replace the suite or I could order a differnt one. As I didn't have any faith in the build quality of the original we started to lok for an alternative.
A couple of days later we found one. At the time it was advertised at £799 Interest Free, but, when I added it to my basket it rose to £999. So I decided to place the order over the 'phone. The lady that took the order agreed that something was incorrect, but confirmed that the cat. no. I'd ordered was definitely for the corner sofa. She advised that I would receive a call within 72 hours and I should take screen prints showing the price. Shortly afterwards I received the email confirmation which stated large 3 seater and not corner sofa. So I rang again, and again I was told I would receive a call within 72 hours...Needless to say I didn't get the call. A full 2 weeks passed and I eventually received a 'phone call telling me that the price should have been £1699 and asking whether I still wanted the sofa. I of course said "no". I also asked why they were still advertsing it at £799 and was told "we are aware of the problem and it would be rectified soon". Another 2 weeks passed and eventually they amended the price.
The outcome from the above situation was that I negotiated with "C*hoice" to match "V*ery's" cash price of £1399 and as C*hoice were offering it interest free. It worked out cheaper over the payment terms. I was advised to get the collection of the faulty suite tied into the delivery of the replacment by ringing them 2 weeks prior to delivery. I hadn't ordered it yet as I was awaiting a colour swatch from them.
In the meantime I continued to look at suites and discovered another alternative, but this was with V*ery, and as I had the available credit I ordered it as it was certainly cheaper than the £1399 that I had renegotiated with C*hoice. This is what my OP relates to. I genuinely thought (maybe naively), that it was on clearance.0 -
I have to point out that whatever is posted on MSE is viewable without logging into the website, and if a company searches for its own-name in google, MSE will be one of the top 5 links from the search.
So be careful what you put, as in the past printed pages of MSE has been used as defence in the courts.
Good luck,
Alias0 -
Alias_Omega wrote: »I have to point out that whatever is posted on MSE is viewable without logging into the website, and if a company searches for its own-name in google, MSE will be one of the top 5 links from the search.
So be careful what you put, as in the past printed pages of MSE has been used as defence in the courts.
Good luck,
Alias
Surely the OP has nothing to hide, whilst dealing with Choice and Very, who have the websites www.choice.co.uk and www.very.co.uk?Gone ... or have I?0 -
(forum won't allow me to post exact quote due to spam policy)Surely the OP has nothing to hide, whilst dealing with C*hoice and V*ery, who have the websites w w w.c*hoice.co.uk and w w w.v*ery.co.uk?
Sorry, but I thought it might have been apparent from my posts when using the company names what I was trying to achieve, so I don't understand why you felt the need to make the above post!
I came here for some advice and thought due to recent successes that I could get an informed opinion from others that have experienced a similar situation.
I don't have anything to hide, however if the advice given had been not to bother in any pursuit then I didn't want to jeopardise the offer made for a reduction on the original replacement.0 -
Surely the OP has nothing to hide, whilst dealing with Choice and Very, who have the websites www.choice.co.uk and www.very.co.uk?
The OP might not have anything to hide, but as per the Dishwasher / Water-Butt cases.
Quotes from this website have been used, in the defence of the company.
Regards,
Alias0 -
Alias_Omega wrote: »The OP might not have anything to hide, but as per the Dishwasher / Water-Butt cases.
Quotes from this website have been used, in the defence of the company.
Regards,
Alias
how were they used and what was said for them to use in defence
(im writing this because I want to post my situation on here)0 -
Have a look at the Dishwasher & the Water Butt thread for more info.
Mainly the Dishwasher thread, unless its been purged of posts.
Alias0
This discussion has been closed.
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