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Natwest refuse to admit that they mis-sold PPI to me
Pumpkin_bear
Posts: 7 Forumite
in Loans
Hi guys,
I've now finished dealing with Natwest and have started dealings with FOS after Natwest refuse to admit that they mis-sold me a PPI police 2 1/2 years ago. To cut a long story short, I am a 'temporary worker' (work for a nursing agency). So when they asked if I'd like to opt for the PPI, I explained this to them and asked if I was covered. The advisor didn't know, so she phoned the Natwest 'Lending Centre' and asked one of their advisors. She didn't know, so off she toddled to read the T&Cs. She came back on the phone and read the portion of the Temporary Worker agreement which basically said "...as long as you have been in regular employment for at least 6 months, and unemployment is not a standard feature of your employment, then you are covered..." So when I asked the question "If work lapses, through no fault of my own, and I am not offered any shifts, then will this policy cover me?" And the Lending Centre clerk replied "Yes."
Now, fast forward 6 months thru time to January 2006 (took out the policy in June 2005). I was out of work for just over 2 weeks (Christmas/New Year period was veeeeery slow for the agency). On day 14 I rang to claim and was told that I needed to have a Jobseeker's Agreement. I told the clerk that I wasn't told this at the time of taking out the policy. The clerk told me that it's in the T&Cs (which it is, on the 2nd page) and that the policy is NOT suitable for my needs.
OK, now fast forward another 18 months. My brother works for a debt counselling service (Martin, you are revered as the Guru in their office!!) He told me that I can a) cancel the policy and b) request a refund on it as it was mis-sold to me. Bless him - he did loads of donkey work for me and basically found the 'Treating customers fairly' (TCF) policy from the FSA's website (see http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/Doing/Regulated/tcf/index.shtml for the full breakdown). I wrote to Natwest 3 times and each time was knocked back. Basically, they say that I was not mis-sold the policy as the full T&Cs state that I need to have a current Jobseeker's Agreement when claiming. I'm fighting back with, under the FSA's 'TCF' policy "Outcome 3: Consumers are provided with clear information and are kept appropriately informed before, during and after the point of sale." (lifted directly from the FSA's website). My argument is that I did NOT receive a copy of the T&Cs until AFTER I'd agreed to opt for the PPI - and when I DID opt for the PPI, I was blatently told that what I wanted to be covered for was actually covered. They neglected to tell me, at point of sale (and was left for me to discover) that I needed the Jobseeker's Agreement. They also told me, back in Jan 2006, that the policy was not suitable yet did not offer to cancel it for me.
I've had a letter from the FOS recently saying that my case has been allocated to a case worker and I'll hear from them in due course. I have no idea what to expect. I feel cheated by Natwest and they refuse to accept that they've done anything wrong.
I'll keep updating as I hear anything. If it's successful then maybe other people can use the FSA's website to their advantage.
I've now finished dealing with Natwest and have started dealings with FOS after Natwest refuse to admit that they mis-sold me a PPI police 2 1/2 years ago. To cut a long story short, I am a 'temporary worker' (work for a nursing agency). So when they asked if I'd like to opt for the PPI, I explained this to them and asked if I was covered. The advisor didn't know, so she phoned the Natwest 'Lending Centre' and asked one of their advisors. She didn't know, so off she toddled to read the T&Cs. She came back on the phone and read the portion of the Temporary Worker agreement which basically said "...as long as you have been in regular employment for at least 6 months, and unemployment is not a standard feature of your employment, then you are covered..." So when I asked the question "If work lapses, through no fault of my own, and I am not offered any shifts, then will this policy cover me?" And the Lending Centre clerk replied "Yes."
Now, fast forward 6 months thru time to January 2006 (took out the policy in June 2005). I was out of work for just over 2 weeks (Christmas/New Year period was veeeeery slow for the agency). On day 14 I rang to claim and was told that I needed to have a Jobseeker's Agreement. I told the clerk that I wasn't told this at the time of taking out the policy. The clerk told me that it's in the T&Cs (which it is, on the 2nd page) and that the policy is NOT suitable for my needs.
OK, now fast forward another 18 months. My brother works for a debt counselling service (Martin, you are revered as the Guru in their office!!) He told me that I can a) cancel the policy and b) request a refund on it as it was mis-sold to me. Bless him - he did loads of donkey work for me and basically found the 'Treating customers fairly' (TCF) policy from the FSA's website (see http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/Doing/Regulated/tcf/index.shtml for the full breakdown). I wrote to Natwest 3 times and each time was knocked back. Basically, they say that I was not mis-sold the policy as the full T&Cs state that I need to have a current Jobseeker's Agreement when claiming. I'm fighting back with, under the FSA's 'TCF' policy "Outcome 3: Consumers are provided with clear information and are kept appropriately informed before, during and after the point of sale." (lifted directly from the FSA's website). My argument is that I did NOT receive a copy of the T&Cs until AFTER I'd agreed to opt for the PPI - and when I DID opt for the PPI, I was blatently told that what I wanted to be covered for was actually covered. They neglected to tell me, at point of sale (and was left for me to discover) that I needed the Jobseeker's Agreement. They also told me, back in Jan 2006, that the policy was not suitable yet did not offer to cancel it for me.
I've had a letter from the FOS recently saying that my case has been allocated to a case worker and I'll hear from them in due course. I have no idea what to expect. I feel cheated by Natwest and they refuse to accept that they've done anything wrong.
I'll keep updating as I hear anything. If it's successful then maybe other people can use the FSA's website to their advantage.
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Comments
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Jobseeker's agreement? All claimants who claim for unemployment have to provide evidence that they are activately looking for work and one of those methods is to be 'signed on'.
Without this the claims would be open to abuse.0 -
Yeah, true - but as I tried to point out to the clerk who advised me in Jan 06 of this, I wasn't technically 'unemployed' as I had an employer - the employer just was unable to provide me with work at that time. I didn't know at the time that I would be out of work for two weeks (they could have rung me any time in the 2 week period that I was without work saying that they had work, if it was available) - hence I wouldn't have been available for work, as the Jobseeker's Agreement specifies (if I recall correctly). And, as I pointed out to her, I didn't have this explained to me at the time of sale (yet I had it confirmed by an advisor in the Lending Centre that this policy would cover this).0
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Sorry I don't get you - either the agency provides you with work or you sign on properly and claim unemployment. You can't have it both ways. I can see why they refused your claim though.0
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But you got sent the terms and conditions of the PPI after you signed up to it; if you had read them and realised you didn't like them, you could have cancelled at that stage.
Claiming mis-selling year(s) later after not reading the Ts & Cs is not much of a basis for a valid claim IMHO.0 -
However, after clarifying AT THE TIME OF SALE with an advisor who checked the T&Cs herself - and did not give me the correct advice (as was confirmed by the advisor in Jan 2006 that 'this policy does not cover what you need') then how am I supposed to understand this? If I am not sure of what the T&Cs state, then I ring up to get clarification (which, in effect, is what I did at the point of sale). If they do not make it clear, at the point of sale (as per the FSA's requirements) then they have breached the TCF policy, surely?0
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As I said you have no chance of winning if this is the position.
No company and I mean no company will pay out in your circumstance.
As MarkyMarkD has said you were sent a policy to check the T&C when you took out the loan.
All you had to do was to register as unemployed - you didn't do it - you have no claim - end of story.0 -
Pumpkin
The point is that you are not having your claim denied because you weren't eligible for cover. The original adviser's advice that you were eligible for cover was correct. You weren't mis-sold.
The reason your claim has been denied is because you didn't bother registering for Jobseeker's Allowance whilst you were not earning. That requirement was clearly stated in your policy conditions.
As I stated before, and reiterating what jonesMUFC has said, I don't see any basis for a mis-selling claim here.0 -
MarkyMarkD wrote: »Pumpkin
The point is that you are not having your claim denied because you weren't eligible for cover. The original adviser's advice that you were eligible for cover was correct. You weren't mis-sold.
The reason your claim has been denied is because you didn't bother registering for Jobseeker's Allowance whilst you were not earning. That requirement was clearly stated in your policy conditions.
As I stated before, and reiterating what jonesMUFC has said, I don't see any basis for a mis-selling claim here.
Have to say I agree with this. There is no basis for mis-selling. You were eligible. You would also have been eligible for the life / critical illness element of the policy aswell.Money, money, money, must be funny....in a rich mans world.
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I don't 100% agree with the sentiment of the last sentence of your post, Waddy.
It would IMHO be mis-selling to sell somebody a package of unemployment/life/critical illness cover when a material part of it - the unemployment part - is not available to a particular customer. Unless a de-packaged option is available, the adviser should tell the customer that they should get the cover elsewhere as otherwise the cover is even more over-priced than normal!0 -
jonesMUFCforever wrote: »As I said you have no chance of winning if this is the position.
No company and I mean no company will pay out in your circumstance.
As MarkyMarkD has said you were sent a policy to check the T&C when you took out the loan.
All you had to do was to register as unemployed - you didn't do it - you have no claim - end of story.
Update: I received a letter from the Ombudsman today which reads something like this: blah blah blah It was my opinion (Ombudsman's) that the PPI had been mis-sold to you and it was NOT sufficient for the bank to rely on your having read the documentation that it provided to you subsequently... blah blah blah... it had failed to make a suitable recommendation and had it done so (when I called in Jan 06) you would have not taken the policy out, instead opting for the loan without the insurance... blah blah blah... in conclusion, I have asked National Westminster bank to pay you compensation equivalent to the total monthly payments at 8% per annum (simple) from the date each payment was made to the date it pays compensation....
Basically, I have won - Natwest have accepted the Ombudsman's decision and so have I. Just waiting for the cash now
So, don't give up hope if you're fighting for your PPI back. If you can make use of the FSA's website (link on my first post in this thread) then please do - it gives us, the consumer, a LOT of backup.0
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