We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

High Street / Manufacturers Warranty Question

Can anyone provide insight on the following dispute:
A friend bought a popular printer from a store of the Dixons/Currys group, about 3 months ago. No extended warranty was purchased, but a 1-year manufacturer's warranty came with it. The item had an annoying fault from time of purchase and a few days ago developed a more severe problem which renders the product unusable. Retailer technical department and manufacturer agree from phone questions that it appears to be a mechanical fault covered by the warranty and there's no dispute about that.
The problem is that the retailer is pushing all liability on to the manufacturer (and claiming that even under the Sales of Goods Act they are entitled to do so in this case), and the manufacturer's policy/offer is only to replace the printer with a refurbished model and cannot stipulate a delivery date. This is unsuitable and unacceptable as my friend cannot wait around missing work for an unstipulated courier delivery time, and moreover having encountered maladies with a brand new device does not have the confidence in a refurbished device which may have been used and strained far in excess of what my friend's printer was used. Further, at the time of purchase there was no stipulation by the retailer (and even today the store does not make this clear), as to the fact that if something goes wrong the customer will have to settle with a replacement which is a refurbished item that may well have been somebody else's problem before.
Thus, the question is: where the retailer is obligated to replace or refund the item of a faulty product, at law can they get away with offering only a solution comprised of the manufacturer's refurbished equipment; or, if that is unsuitable to the customer can the customer insist on a new replacement item or a refund?
How would the sales of goods act or consumer credit act work in this case?

Comments

  • fantasia_2
    fantasia_2 Posts: 123 Forumite
    Its my understanding that the warranty is an add-on and not very 'legal'. a 1 year warranty is a gimmick. The legal aspect means that you have a sale contract with the seller and not the manufacturer. The manufacturers warranty is not part of the legal contract & can be dismissed. The sellers have a duty to refund your electrical product or repair it (if you want this option). Do not let them repair it if you dont want them to - this will affect your consumer rights & is usually exactly what they want to do.

    Get something off them in writing if possible, otherwise gather evidence & get off to the small claims court. inform trading standards and write a snotty letter in your local paper about their dodgy dealing.

    They will not want to refund you as electrical items lose their price fast & they will lose money.

    You actually have rights for up to 6 years with electrical products, but you will not get a full refund after 1 year.

    Remember warranties are not the same as your legal rights, they are add-ons from sellers/manufacturers trying to get you to part with your money, although they are often the quickest way of getting things sorted when they are honoured. They always state that they do not affect your statutory rights - you need to point this out.

    hope this helps (i'm no expert on this, just been in a few battles)
  • Reaper
    Reaper Posts: 7,356 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    This article may interest you. It is a bit old but relevent:
    Eight out of ten major high-street electrical stores were not prepared to take responsibility for faulty goods which they might sell, in an investigation for Which? published today (1 February 2001).

    Under the Sale of Goods Act, retailers are responsible for faulty goods - that is goods which are not 'of satisfactory quality' - for up to six years after purchase (in Scotland the period is five years after something goes wrong). But, according to Which?, staff from stores, including Currys, Dixons and Comet and Tempo, wrongly stated, or implied, that the responsibility lay with the manufacturer or the customer.

    Which? sent undercover shoppers to 12 major UK chains, visiting two branches of each, with a complaint about an 18-month VCR that had broken down. In 80 per cent of the visits, staff made it clear that the problem was nothing to do with them and washed their hands of it.

    Many stores mentioned the one-year guarantee - which had now expired - as the end of the line for their responsibilities. This is wrong. Rights under a guarantee are in addition to rights against the seller under the Sale of Goods Act.

    However I gather that you are not necessarily entitled to a full refund for 6 years. That period is much shorter and expires once you have accepted the goods (eg got them and checked they are working).

    I suspect that providing him with a refurbished item is sufficient. After all if they repaired his faulty printer and returned it, it would be refurbished! I think he will have to accept it, though I'm no lawyer.
  • albalad
    albalad Posts: 1,194 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    some good advice above , If your friend paid for it on a credit card /finance- would the credit card / finance company not dispute it on their behalf ?
    Not entirely sure of this but it's certainly worth trying.
    sorry couldn't be more helpful
    "The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page."
    happy travels !!
    "No matter where you go, there you are."
    albalad
  • Owing to the time passed, they should take your printer and repair it as it is. Refurbished appliances are pretty much as good as a new appliance as most of the parts are relplaced by new components, so it won't be 'strained'.

    In all honesty, take what they've offered and request they deliver the appliance to the store for collection. They could be difficult and refuse to help full stop. They have offered you a compromise.

    You can't insist on a brand new one as the time has been too long, nor can you insist on a refund for that same reason.

    Sad but true - take what they're offering and be thankful.
    Watch out people. You don't know what lurks around the corner for you![/SIZE]
  • darbooka
    darbooka Posts: 489 Forumite
    Thanks to all who have commented. Your insights have all been very helpful. For all who are interested, here's a followup of what has happened until now. Maybe you'll find some things helpful as well.
    Firstly, in fact and by law there is no issue of time passed here. By law it's as fully covered now as it was on day one after purchase.
    A senior store manager consulted the retailer's litigation department, which purportedly believes they are operating within the relevant laws and not doing anything wrong (however misleading their store policy might be by them not having clarified at the time of purchase that if something goes wrong with the product 3 months after purchase the customer will at best get a refurbished item and not a new one, with the further inconvenience of delivery at an unguaranteed time). Further, the manager discussed the issue with the manufacturer and the manufacturer indicated that they do not offer repairs on that model of printer because it's not cost-efficient for them to do so (presumably, and in contrast, if they actually are offering refurbished models then they do actually repair them - it's just that they later pass them on to others as replacements; but they wont repair and return to the original owner his or her fixed printer).
    But according to Trading Standards a consumer printer store purchase contract as in this case is indeed between the customer and the store ONLY; and, any warranty arrangment as in this case is between the retailer and the manufacturer. The customer has the full right to have the situation resolved by the store at which the purchase was made, and if store personnel insist that the customer deal only with the manufacturer in resolving the issue, then that could amount to restriction of the statutory consumer rights which in turn could very well amount to a CRIMINAL offense in itself.
    Further, we have been advised, and it is worth adding, that the well known Sales of Goods Act 1979 has been supplemented to the further benefit of consumers by the Sale & Supplyof Goods To Consumer Regulations 2002.
    Additionally, with regard to a refurbished replacement, there are a few issues here:
    a. It may be just as good but it may turn out not to be.
    b. When an item was purchased new and sealed in its original packaging, the retailer's obligation to replace a faulty product with an equivalent item is not satisfied by replacing it with a refurbished item. In common dictionary and legal definitions, new and refurbished are two different things. If the customer wants to accept a refurbished one, he or she are free to do so but the store cannot mandate this as a satisfactory resolution.
    c. The customer has legal title to the specific printer he purchased, which is one reason serial numbers are printed on them. He cannot be forced to exchange it for something else, which is - or used to be - the used property of another. If he or she is willing to accept an exchange, that's fine. But equally if customer wants their own property to be repaired or refunded or replaced by a new eqivalent then that is their total right.
    The customer did not buy a liscense to use a particular model of a manufacturer's product line for warranteed period of time; rather, the customer procured a specific item, marked by a unique serial number, with which he will have become familiar in the course of use. THAT is the item sold to him by the retailer, and the retailer in the end has the legal obligation to repair or refund the customer's particular item, if not to exchange it for an equivalent. Any calculations by the retailer or manufacturer as to the equivalence of a refurbished replacement is only relevant if acceptable by the customer.
    On the face of it, if refurbished products were from all perspectives truly equivalent to 'brand new' items, then many customers would prefer to buy refurbished items at a reduced cost from the outset, especially if it is the case and if they knew at the outset that any replacement for faulty items would be by way of refurbished items.
    This situation has been referred to Trading Standards, as further referred to an enforcement officer.
  • Wig
    Wig Posts: 14,139 Forumite
    Darbooka,

    You asked for help from another thread. You seem to have been given fairly good advice here anyway, and your own dealings with the trading standards have gotten you a lot of useful knowledge, and thanks for posting it here.

    Now contrary to the poster above who said you have no right to a refund I would say let the court decide what right to refund you have or not.

    In other words get down to the trading standards and ask them to help you draft a letter (to retailer) quoting the relevant laws and asking for a FULL REFUND anything else is not acceptable at this stage. In the letter you give them 14 days to comply or you will start proceedings against them in the small claims court.

    If no luck, simple next step is to start proceedings in the small claims court - this is very easy to do and it is very cheap to do and offers no financial risk to you other than the court fee which is very very small. You will find that the retailer is well aware that the small claims court will find in your favour and they will back out and give you a refund before the court date. They might wait until the very last day before court but they will back down. In this instance make sure they pay you the refund plus the cost of the court plus any other costs you feel they should pay.

    The only thing you are going to lose is time. If you want it resolved quickly accept a refurbished item. You might even wish to accept a refurbished item "under protest" and then take them to the small claims court afterwards. However, I'm not sure about how this will be seen by the court.

    Simple as. Just do it.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 352.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.3K Spending & Discounts
  • 245.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 601K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.5K Life & Family
  • 259.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.