they can't prove i owe them!

jt2k6 · 1 June 2007 at 3:52PM

as per another thread I am currently dealing with the "lovely" people at CSL, they said they have taken a debt over from egg so i should give them loads or they will take my house, wife, daughter, and put an advert in the paper saying I was a naughty boy!!!

well I have no problem with the debt to egg, but I asked (as it is my right to do) for a true copy of the agreement, I enclosed a PO for a pound (which BTW cost £1:45!!!!!) and sent it off using a template from here giving them 12 working days to respond, well suprise suprise! they havn't!

now what do I do, I really want to make them feel as bad as they have made me and my wife feel, my wife hasn't been sleeping and spends a lot of time crying..... not what you want with a 5 month old daughter!
so whats my next step?

Thanks as always

TTFN

Crown · 1 June 2007 at 4:04PM

Hi, Do you have a copy of the template letter you sent?

If it is the standard one from here then you should write to them informing them that as you havent heard from them or received a copy of the CCA you will consider the matter closed. If they wish to contact you in future will be contacting the regulatory bodies (trading standards, FSA ect.

Remember withnout this the are really idle threats as they would not be able to proof it in a court anyhow. Have you been making any payments to them recen tly with regards to this or have tyou acknowleded the debt?

moonlightpjs · 1 June 2007 at 4:08PM

Hi
Unfortunatly there is nothing you can do until the 12+2+30 days have expired but they cannot chase you for the debt until they provide the CCA )if they can). When the above timescale is up send them this letter (will need ammending with your dates etc) and you can them report them to the relevant bodies, of course, if they do supply the CCA at any time in teh future they can still enforce the debt but by reporting them (or threatening to) they might write the debt off as they stand to be fined £2500 for not supplying you with the CCA.

refer to my letter dated {enter date} which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices on {enter delivery date}.

You have failed to acknowledge this request by not supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

In my letter of the {enter date} I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment. In addition a full statement of my account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account from the time {debt agency name} purchased this account, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on {enter date} and {enter date} respectively.

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and
(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore on {enter offence date} this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, i do not acknowledge any debt to {debt agency name}.

I require the following action from {debt agency name} :

1. All payments made to date to {debt agency name} for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

2. Removal of all defaults entered by {debt agency name}. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

3. I look forward to compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by myself, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force {debt agency name} or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

I look forward to your reply within 14 days to resolve the matter amicably.

Crown · 1 June 2007 at 4:36PM

Hi Weller, This letter is going into my template folder if you dont mind.

Excellent. Have you used this yourself before?

jt2k6 · 1 June 2007 at 4:42PM

Thank you both for your very informative replies,

Crown,

I don't have a copy of the letter on me as I'm in the office

I have not personnaly made any payments to CSL, my DMP being managed by Sterling Green have been making regular payments of £16.14 (on a £1000 loan) to egg, I have forwarded all the letters I have had from CSL to SG, so they may have transfered their payments to CSL but they havn't told me if they have

Weller
you have helped me before and today is no exception,

I love your replies, i plan to do everything I can to make a nusance of myself they have been awfull

Thanks again

moonlightpjs · 1 June 2007 at 4:55PM

Crown wrote: »

Hi Weller, This letter is going into my template folder if you dont mind.

Excellent. Have you used this yourself before?

Thats fine Crown.

Yes I have used it and it has been successful

Two debts written off just because they didn't have a CCA and defaults removed - naughty creditors :T

Please understand that I do want to pay my debts - i just wanted the accounts passed back to the original creditors (who also didn;t have a CCA) because the DCA's were hounding me and making me ill - I didn't think for a minute that they would write them off but I'm not complaining.

shebear44 · 3 June 2007 at 5:46PM

weller711 wrote: »

Hi
Unfortunatly there is nothing you can do until the 12+2+30 days have expired but they cannot chase you for the debt until they provide the CCA )if they can). When the above timescale is up send them this letter (will need ammending with your dates etc) and you can them report them to the relevant bodies, of course, if they do supply the CCA at any time in teh future they can still enforce the debt but by reporting them (or threatening to) they might write the debt off as they stand to be fined £2500 for not supplying you with the CCA.

refer to my letter dated {enter date} which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices on {enter delivery date}.

You have failed to acknowledge this request by not supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

In my letter of the {enter date} I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment. In addition a full statement of my account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account from the time {debt agency name} purchased this account, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on {enter date} and {enter date} respectively.

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and
(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore on {enter offence date} this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, i do not acknowledge any debt to {debt agency name}.

I require the following action from {debt agency name} :

1. All payments made to date to {debt agency name} for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

2. Removal of all defaults entered by {debt agency name}. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

3. I look forward to compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by myself, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force {debt agency name} or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

I look forward to your reply within 14 days to resolve the matter amicably.

Hi Weller711,
I am in a similar situation. I have been harrassed by CapQuest Debt Recovery Ltd for a debt they claim to have purchased from a mail order company. They refuse to tell me what the debt is for, or when it was incurred. A few years ago, I discovered that an identity theft had occurred when a person(s) used my name and previous address to order goods that were not subsequently paid for. I can only deduce that this "debt" relates to this period, although when I contacted the original firm that was defrauded, they confirmed that they were aware that I was not responsible for any money owed to them because I could easily prove that I did not live at the address the goods were sent to. However, CapQuest insist I owe this money and are threatening to pass my details on to their collection department, even though I have provided them with evidende that I am not responsible for their purchased debt. I received a further letter from them demanding to be given details of a police report, which, of course, the mail order company would have as they were the party that was defrauded.
Has anybody else had problems with these bullies? Thanks for any advice.

moonlightpjs · 3 June 2007 at 6:30PM

Hi SB
You will find that quite a lot of people have had poblems with Capquest (or Crapquest as the are better known on here

) I think the first thing to do would to send a CCA request, this puts the account in dispute, meaning no further action can be taken until they have provided you with a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement (which from the sounds of it they will not have).
Below is a template letter but you will need to alter the dates etc. Send it by Recorded Delievery with a £1 postal order or cheque. Enter the dates on this letter for 12+2. Then when this is up you need to allow them another 30 days to respond before you can report them. Do not make any payment to them as this will mean you are acknowledging the debt, which as you say isn't yours.

They have 12+2+30 days to respond with the agreement, after this timescale you can send the letter out you have quoted and it then becomes illegal for them to chase you for the debt and of course, you can report them. If they start to bother you inbetween them receiving the CCA request and the end of the timescale, just ignore them, they will send you empty threats in order to get you to pay. They cannot enforce the debt, ie take further action, until they have provided you with a CCA no matter what they say.

Here is the first letter you need to send:-

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose £1 in payment of the statutory fee.

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities, therefore if I do not receive evidence that I owe your company any monies by 1 June 2007, I will have no hesitation in passing your details to the Office of Fair Trading.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Regarding your threat that a Doorstep Collector will call the owner of this property is denying you or anybody working on your behalf access onto their estate or grounds in relation to this disputed debt, should you or any agent acting for you attempt to gain access to the estate or its grounds, then you will be ignoring your denial of access and the owner of (enter addres) will take legal steps to sue both you and or your agents for trespass, please also note that having a letterbox on the property gives you or anyone working on your behalf neither implied nor expressed rights to enter the properties boundaries, again any instances of trespass WILL lead the property owner to sue both yourselves or any agents working on your behalf.

This should get them off your backs as they are very unlikely to have a true CCA.
HTH and good luck, remember to keep posting to let us know how you get on or if you need further help.

shebear44 · 20 June 2007 at 3:04PM

Weller, thank you so much for all your excellent advice. So far, they have defaulted on my request for a CCA, and I am now waiting for the 30 calendar days to pass so that I can take further action. May I add that this has not stopped them harrassing me further, but I have been ignoring their demands to cotnact them on the telephone on supply docments. They are fishing for information which they do not have because there is no credit agreement in the first place.

they can't prove i owe them!

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