Organic vs Fairtrade vs Local?

I use a local organic veg delivery service. Each week the veg list is emailed out with details of sources and price fluations. You pick what veg you want and it is delivered to your doorstep. Everything is organic and fairtrade (if applicable). It costs more than supermarket's own veg but the ethical benefits outway this with reduced transportation, recuced enviromental impact, no slave wages, improved health benefits.

I am based in Hull and use http://www.arthursorganics.com/
There are more links nationally on http://www.alotoforganics.co.uk/cats/organic-vegetables.php

martinpike wrote:

Very rarely can you fulfil all three criteria, and even if you could, I imagine you'd notice the difference in your pocket.

This is always the compromise with "green" principles and can be extended to a great many things ....

Solar energy - renewable source, cuts down on carbon emissions .... BUT the savings in your leccy bill are "none" really, as it takes about 10 years for you to recover the cost of installation. And, of course, how were the solar panels produced? What non-green processes were used to manufacture them? How many miles have they travelled - and if not made in the UK, were they shipped by air?

Even water butts - you have to fork out money to be green and consider the manufacturing process that produces the butts. Plastic itself is hardly "green", is it? It will dry and perish eventually and many will doubtless end up in land-fill sites :mad:

I think it gets a little easier with food though ..... buying from small, local producers is the key. I put the retailers second to this, unless they are independent retailers or, as with a neighbouring village, a community store (this is run on a not-for-profit basis, so any markup on prices only goes towards the overheads of the shop) which generally provide a retail outlet for local producers.

Organic food is in an interesting one as I firmly believe that a lot of food is, in fact, produced "organically" but not labelled as such, because the producer hasn't registered with the Soil Association or any other accreditor. And I don't blame them. It can cost £000s to go through the rigmarole of getting accreditation and that's not an easy bill for a small producer to manage. There are many small producers who are using traditional small farming methods to produce a wide range of food in the UK. If you talk to local producers about how they farm, they'll gladly tell you what they use and don't use. Many are little more than smallholders. My veg is organic, but I couldn't claim it to be and if I sold it (which I don't) I certainly couldn't tell customers that it was "organic".

Reference was made on the other thread to "large commercial" agri-farmers. Yes, they do exist in some parts of the country (East Anglia being a prime example) but NOT in many other parts. Have a look at the High Weald which covers most of E Sussex and parts of Kent and the local products directory, in particular. It simply provides an idea of the number of small, local producers you can find in one particular area of the country.

Fairtrade is a slightly different issue, I think. It's "an independent consumer label which appears on products as an independent guarantee that disadvantaged producers in the developing world are getting a better deal."

Some interesting things about Fairtrade ..... it doesn't insist on organic farming methods, so plenty Fairtrade products are not organic. And it doesn't simply support small independent growers .... a large plantation can be a Fairtrade supplier, provided the plantation meets certain standards about the pay and conditions for plantation workers.

I've raised these points not to rubbish Fairtrade, but simply to clarify what it is they do. They are primarily concerned with disadvantaged farmers and farm workers in the developing world - and that's about it. A very laudible cause, but many people seem to associate them with purely organic products or with "environmentally green" farming methods and this is simply not the case. And the product only needs to contain 50% of "fairtrade" ingredients, in order to be labelled Fairtrade (and in some cases, it only needs to contain 20% fairtrade ingredients).

I wonder how many people actually know what Fairtrade is and what it does?

I liken Fairtrade more to a charity for third world agricultural workers and that's the basis on which I buy Fairtrade products. I prefer to support charities on an entirely separate basis to determining what I buy and where I buy it from - just a personal view, but based on the fact that the Fairtrade label does not tell me very much about the food I'm buying, just about the people who worked so hard to produce it. Let's face it, if the terms and pay of workers were our prime concern when shopping, there are a number of UK supermarkets that wouldn't get our custom!

One final point ... I am just a little uncomfortable with the concept of third world farmers that produce food for export ... when there are so many starving people in their own countries. It can't be avoided, of course, and there are benefits to the exporting country's economy. But sadly, those countries are also generally run by corrupt tyrants who control the way that the country's money is distributed. I prefer to support initiatives that help third world people to feed themselves in a more direct way.

It's for each of us to determine our priorities when shopping and it's difficult to balance all the considerations. Personally, I am genuinely concerned about the amount of imported food sold in the UK - it's damaging for our local farmers; it almost certainly hasn't been produced to what we would consider good standards; it's of dubious quality; overpriced, as you pay for transport costs; damaging to the environment, due to the miles travelled ...... I could go on.

Like you, buying directly from small local producers is my number one priority. Organic is secondary, but I do satisfy myself as to the provenance of the food I'm buying and exactly how it's been produced.

Regards

It is very difficult, I try my best to buy local produce, then British organic, then Fairtrade. Like Lynzpower I will avoid certain foods if I cannot get British. Who needs strawberries in December anyway?

I am trying to get the garden into the state where I can actually grow something besides weeds. One thought that did hit home though was when someone on the radio mentioned food miles and throwing food away. The point being that it was the biggest waste of food miles (from wherever it came from) to then throw the food away uneaten. Since then I have tried much much harder not to throw food away. Another dilemma I have (which I have posted on another board) is that of soya products. I am vegan and rely a lot on soya but apparantly organic soya is responsible for greater destruction of the rain forest than McD's any idea where I can buy non-GM soya that is not from the rain forest?

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

Even water butts - you have to fork out money to be green and consider the manufacturing process that produces the butts. Plastic itself is hardly "green", is it? It will dry and perish eventually and many will doubtless end up in land-fill sites :mad:

I have water butts but they are not plastic and have certainly been recycled...and were local too! They were both big old whiskey barrell's (seemed a shame to put rainwater in them and spoil that lovely smell!!! Ha Ha!!). Look so much better in the garden than those green ones.:beer:

We have a small family business which the local farmer uses, so in turn, we use his business also - we get our meat from him - you know exactly how he treats them (in the fields for 2 years). Get free range eggs from him, fruit, veg, etc - all sourced locally if they dont produce it themselves. Unfortunately not much is organic; in an ideal world i would by organic local items, but hopefully one day.

I basically try and keep away from supermarkets as much as possible - but i find myself struggling each month to balance saving money on our food bill, but would rather spend more on good food than the rubbish at 'convienience' stores.

My neighbour has just popped round with some fresh potatoes he dug from his new allotment this evening!! Will enjoy them tomorrow!!....i said i'll swap them for some olives i've got growing on my tree...when they finally ripen! Can't get any better than fresh and free!!

LMT

Hi Misskool

There are a couple of reasons why I buy organic

1. Pesticides do pollute the land and water courses. The run off kills fishes and other plants etc, impacting on the eco system Heres a bit of blurb from the Environment agency http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/yourenv/eff/1190084/business_industry/agri/pests/

Also theres an impact in other ways from intensive farming http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,,1574648,00.html

2. You just cannot argue that there isnt a taste difference. the most pronounced is carrots Ive found. You can REALLY tell the difference in my view. TOmatoes is another ( not that I eat them that regularly) but there is a much richer, deeper flavour in the flesh.

3.Nutritional value. If a tomoato has been grown intensively, it has had chemicla help to grow faster, and thus bigger, quicker. Some fruit & veg have been grown so quickly that that their vitamin content is negligible. Eat a carrot thats been grown organically and more slowly means that there is a difference in nutritional value.

Also pest control can be organic- be it an introduction of crossbred varieties, or planting "scarecrow plants" or traditional ways of turning the land.

Hope this helps you misskool