MSE News: The mortgage ticking timebomb

Options
Former_MSE_Penelope
Former_MSE_Penelope Posts: 536 Forumite
edited 23 November 2009 at 4:05PM in Mortgages & endowments
This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"We've all been failed. Mortgages across the country are being overpriced – a ticking time bomb ready to blight the finances of ..."

Read the full story:
The mortgage ticking timebomb
OfficialStamp.gif
«1345

Comments

  • michaels
    michaels Posts: 28,005 Forumite
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    edited 21 November 2009 at 10:12PM
    Options
    Martin

    Finally a piece (link, thanks J_B: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/mortgages/2009/11/the-mortgage-margin-scandal) that needs addressing (I have been banging on about this since the turn of the year, see my sig for a good example) - the scale of the profiteering dwarfs anything the energy companies are doing or indeed any bank charges.

    However please take out the first example re 5 year fixes - it is simply not relevant to the argument and will allow many reading the piece to dismiss the whole thing out of hand.

    Banks could argue that increased risk of price falls and hence negative equity require higher margins - and yet even 60% ltv mortgages have a huge margin priced in where the risk of the lender making a loss on default must be as close to zero as makes no difference - and surely with prices lower than before the risk of price falls is also lower?

    However it is not all profit as cost of funds to the banks needs to be considered - funding mortgages using money martket funds is no longer considered a viable business model after what happened to NR and other forms of funding are more expensive (for example the best savings rates are now considerably higher than base compared to around base prior to the base rate paradigm shift) and the implicit profit made from virtually free funds in non / trivial interest rate paying current and instant access accounts is obviously much smaller in a low interest rate environment.

    (Edit, thanks Wutang - Please take a deep breathe) My reading of the market is those banks with a strong capital position who are able to take advantage of the low money market funding rates (step forward HSBC and Santander) are laughing all the way to the 'bank' - excessive and embarrassing profits only being hidden by continuing write-offs else where in the organisations, weaker banks are to some extent using the profits to rebuild their balance sheets but are constrained by having to also raise capital from savers (the ones owned by taxpayers) and some organisations like mutuals who rely on savers funds are being squeezed (step forward Nationwide who are being doubly hit by honouring their 2% max svr to base rate difference promise). Given the reduction in competiotn in the market place no lender has any incentive to break ranks and offer more competive but less profitable products to build market share in a market that whilst profitable, exposure is not currently rewarded by the stock market.
    I think....
  • Wutang_2
    Wutang_2 Posts: 2,513 Forumite
    Options
    michaels wrote: »

    My reading of the market is those banks with a strong capital position who are able to take advantage of the low money market funding rates (step forward HSBC and Santander) are laughing all the way to the 'bank' - excessive and embarrassing profits only being hidden by continuing write-offs else where in the organisations, weaker banks are to some extent using the profits to rebuild their balance sheets but are constrained by having to also raise capital from savers (the ones owned by taxpayers) and some organisations like mutuals who rely on savers funds are being squeezed (step forward Nationwide who are being doubly hit by honouring their 2% max svr to base rate difference promise). Given the reduction in competiotn in the market place no lender has any incentive to break ranks and offer more competive but less profitable products to build market share in a market that whilst profitable, exposure is not currently rewarded by the stock market.

    Thats the first ever paragraph that has made me faint.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
  • LizEstelle
    LizEstelle Posts: 1,559 Forumite
    Options
    It's pointless trying to engage with Mr Lewis on this one.

    I have tried in the past and he simply washes his hands of any thought of championing the consumer cause here.

    It seems his argument comes down to 'plenty of other people are raising the issue'.

    His horizons are apparently limited to the let's-support-the brinkmanship-budgeters-bank-charges nonsense.

    A shame but there you are.
  • Joe_Bloggs
    Joe_Bloggs Posts: 4,535 Forumite
    Options
    Their is normally a link to the original material in the first post. Since it is not there I will post a link here.

    Perhaps many of the effects of base rates this low are just wishful thinking. No new commercial business is going to be based on these low base rates. This is because they are already irrelevant and they can't be sustained even if they were relevant.
    J_B.
  • Trollfever
    Trollfever Posts: 2,051 Forumite
    Options
    An estimated 300,000 of its borrowers are paying a rate of just 2.5 per cent on their mortgages.
    Nationwide says it is losing £450million a year on these home loans, because it is has to pay a higher interest rate to get the money in the first place - either from customer savings or by borrowing in the wholesale markets.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1229633/Nationwide-hit-pound-450m-loan-costs.html#ixzz0XWNFaCHB



    .
  • Joe_Bloggs
    Joe_Bloggs Posts: 4,535 Forumite
    Options
    The Nationwide is a mutual society. It has a duty to redistribute the profits between the members. I am benefiting from their generosity by a voluntary reduction in a collared rate by 0.25% .
    J_B.
  • LizEstelle
    LizEstelle Posts: 1,559 Forumite
    Options
    Joe_Bloggs wrote: »
    The Nationwide is a mutual society. It has a duty to redistribute the profits between the members. I am benefiting from their generosity by a voluntary reduction in a collared rate by 0.25% .
    J_B.


    So no plush carpeting and 20 people do each job (except serving at the cash desk) then, as at my local branch.

    That kind of 'redistribution'...
  • _bankrupted
    Options
    I have a one account mortgage (offset mortgage), when I applied for the loan a few years back I opted to cap my facility at 50% of the property value. So in effect this means I have a mortgage of 50% LTV. My current interest rate is 3.65% The bank of England base rate is 0.5%. So this is a 3.15% margin.

    My Spanish property has in effect a 70% LTV loan. ECB interest rate is 1% and my Spanish mortgage rate is 2.22%. So this is a 1.22% margin.

    Yes UK banks are screwing us.
  • Radiantsoul
    Radiantsoul Posts: 2,096 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker First Anniversary
    Options
    The lack of competition in the mortgage market is increasing spreads between mortgage and money market rates. I can't see that this situation will improve until competition returns to the market, which is already happening to an extent. The profits on these mortgages are what will drive new entrants into the market.

    Overall I would say that mortgage lending is still risky and will require large spreads as the houseprice outlook is still uncertain. I suspect the rates charged in the boom years mid 90s to 2007 were too low and so likely to return in the near future. Probably mortgages will need to trade at a quite a bit higher than swap rates to cover the risk of price falls, issuing debt, running branches and protecting security. The fact is that the risk of price falls and issuing debt have both risen over the past couple of years. But I wonder just how profitable mortgages were in the boom years and how many companies were pricing for market share.
  • opinions4u
    opinions4u Posts: 19,411 Forumite
    edited 22 November 2009 at 12:28PM
    Options
    I have a one account mortgage (offset mortgage), when I applied for the loan a few years back I opted to cap my facility at 50% of the property value. So in effect this means I have a mortgage of 50% LTV. My current interest rate is 3.65% The bank of England base rate is 0.5%. So this is a 3.15% margin.
    No it's not a 3.15% margin.

    If they raised their money at BofE rate you'd be correct. But they don't. So you're wrong.

    Your point also overlooks those mortgage borrowers benfiting from negative/low margin trackers.
    My Spanish property has in effect a 70% LTV loan. ECB interest rate is 1% and my Spanish mortgage rate is 2.22%. So this is a 1.22% margin.
    Same point applies.

    And we haven't even discussed the differences that there may or may not be in T&Cs between the different mortgages.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards