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How do you choose a pension?

Im 37 and plan to start a personal pension next year around Feb.

I have a very small LA pension which states it will pay out around 2k pa and then my state pension states it will be 158pw which is about 7.5k pa.

I would like to have (in today's money) around 12k pa (NET) when I retire.

I wanted to start a personal pension back in 1997, but was advised against it as I worked for a LA at the time. Despite knowing that I would move regularly in jobs, have time out, temp etc, I took the advice not to get a personal pension and havent bothered since. I really regret this.

So knowing that my working pattern will be the same, lots of moves, different employers in short timescales, I will now get a personal pension.

BUT, firstly the figures above from my existing pensions, does anyone know if they are today's money, or the amounts that will be in 30 years time?

secondly, how on earth do you choose a pension when 'past performance is no indicator of future performance'?

I keep seeing on pension websites that you 'must' get an annuity on retirement from your fund, but Im sure I have seen members on here say that this has changed? What is the rule, I dont really like the idea of an annuity


thanks

Comments

  • jenner wrote:

    BUT, firstly the figures above from my existing pensions, does anyone know if they are today's money, or the amounts that will be in 30 years time?

    Figures should be in today's money. This permits an assessment of the extent to which you need to make up the shortfall (you state £12K net) by increasing contributions, etc.

    secondly, how on earth do you choose a pension when 'past performance is no indicator of future performance'?

    Fund performance is just one consideration in "choosing a pension". Another major factor is the effect of charges (fund-based and adviser charges), especially over the long-term. Also the flexibility of investment options. A pension is ultimately just a tax wrapper. :)

    I keep seeing on pension websites that you 'must' get an annuity on retirement from your fund, but Im sure I have seen members on here say that this has changed? What is the rule, I dont really like the idea of an annuity

    Annuity purchase is the most common choice for income in retirement. However, it is by no means the only choice. You can now consider 'income drawdown' (if you have a SIPP), and there are many 'third way' (but not in the Nu-Labour sense) products available too, which bridge the gap between annuities and income drawdown.

    When you retire - many, many years from now (happy days! :p) - there may well be a whole multitude of options available that mere mortals such as I cannot currently conceive. I would not consider the ubiquity of annuities in 2009 as a reason not to plan for your retirement using pensions!
    For the avoidance of doubt: I work for an IFA.
  • puddy
    puddy Posts: 12,709 Forumite
    thanks, very interesting, so if I want 12k net, then I should look toward about 15k gross as a total income, which means I have a shortfall of about 6-7k (gulp)

    as my partner is 10 years older than me, I had hoped to retire when Im 57 so that I retire just a bit later than he does, however, Im now wondering whether this is even possible at this late stage.

    Is there a way of setting up 2 pensions, one to mature when Im 57 and one when Im 67 so that I could only work part time from 57 onward?
  • puddy
    puddy Posts: 12,709 Forumite
    oh my gawd, so now Im reading about whether its better to have an ISA rather than a 'pension'.

    I have got my first ISA this year, plan to do one next year too, maybe I should just get one every year until retirement? But you dont get tax relief on the payments in, just the interest, is that right?

    I can see now why so many people feel so overwhelmed about the choices in pensions that they dont bother, Im not saying that is an excuse but its really hard to understand a lot of it
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 119,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 30 October 2009 at 12:15PM
    I wanted to start a personal pension back in 1997, but was advised against it as I worked for a LA at the time. Despite knowing that I would move regularly in jobs, have time out, temp etc, I took the advice not to get a personal pension and havent bothered since. I really regret this.
    That was the correct advice.
    a) the LA scheme was far better than a personal pension.
    b) you couldnt be in a personal scheme and the occupational scheme back then
    c) it would have been a mis-sale had they done a personal pension.

    If you have employer contributions then you should always take them. Even if it means you are not there for a long time. You can always transfer the pension afterwards and keep the employer money.
    Is there a way of setting up 2 pensions, one to mature when Im 57 and one when Im 67 so that I could only work part time from 57 onward?

    You dont need to. Apart from stakeholders, personal pensions and SIPPs will allow you to split your pension pot with part crystallised pension and part uncrystallised (that means commenced and uncommenced benefits). By the time you get to retirement, stakeholder wont exist any more (expected to be abolished for new business after 2012) and rules will almost certainly be different by then.
    I can see now why so many people feel so overwhelmed about the choices in pensions that they dont bother, Im not saying that is an excuse but its really hard to understand a lot of it

    The ISA vs pension thing relates to stocks and share ISAs vs pensions. Not cash ISA. Cash ISA is unsuitable for most people with long term retirement planning. Pensions will produce a higher income in retirement than ISAs. However, its fine tuning. You dont have to fine tune if you dont want to but we do tend to look at perfection a lot of the time in this forum and you would expect an adviser to do so as well. So, you can keep it easy if you dont want the best. But if you want the optimal way of doing things then it will take a bit more work and knowledge.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Experiment with the Hargreaves Lansdown pension calculator. It suggests that you might reasonably expect to obtain £1210 a year of pension income for each £100 a month that you contribute for every year from now until you are 57.

    That's assuming you take no lump sum. Better in your case is to take 25% lump sum and use that extra capital to increase your income until you get the state pensions. In this case you'd get £8310 of cash and £1025 of ongoing income for each £100 a month you pay in. The £8310 of cash could be spent, leaving none left at age 68, to get an extra £755 a year of income. So that's £1780 a year of income per £100 of contributions until you're 68 then dropping to £1025 after that when you're getting more income from the state pensions and possibly work pensions.

    To further increase the income available before getting the state pensions you could also make stocks and shares ISA investments. Each £100 a month of S&S ISA contributions might be expected to deliver £26,500 of capital at age 57. Spending that as extra income, leaving none of it left at age 68, would produce around £2400 of income a year until you get the state pensions, then no more from age 68.

    You expect £9,500 of pension income at state pension age and want £12500 net, about £12750 gross. This means that you need ongoing personal pension income of £12750 - £9500 = £3,250.

    £3,250 / £1025 of ongoing pension income = 3.17 * £100 = £320 a month of gross pension contributions a month. That's £256 net before tax relief of pension contributions to deliver the target income when you're getting state and work pension money.

    Moving on the age 57-68 the pension delivers 3.17 * £1780 = £5640 a year of income for those years using the lump sum to boost it. You're after £12500 net so this leaves you short by £12500 - £5640 = £4390. I use net target for this because much of the income will be from the ISA or pension lump sum and be tax free, so the ongoing pension part will be within your tax free personal allowance.

    The S&S ISA delivers £2400 per £100 contributed so you need £4390 / £2400 = 1.83 * £100 = £183 a month of S&S ISA contributions to boost your income until the state and work pensions start.

    So to probably reach your target of retiring completely at age 57 you need to make:

    £256 a month of net pension contributions and
    £183 a month of S&S ISA contributions
    and need to increase those each year by RPI inflation.

    As a very rough approximation for each age you could retire you'd need to contribute:

    Age 55: £339 pension, £242 S&S ISA
    Age 56: £295 pension, £210 S&S ISA
    Age 57: £256 pension, £183 S&S ISA
    Age 58: £223 pension, £159 S&S ISA
    Age 59: £194 pension, £139 S&S ISA

    Assumptions: born 1 Jan 1972, annuity purchase with 50% spouse pension for all income production, 7% growth, 1% annual investment charges, 3% annual pension increase, 5 year guarantee, income monthly in advance. Two years around 57 approximations are 15% a year compounded decrease or increase in contributions required. £9500 personal allowance in retirement, enough for all taxable income before then.
  • puddy
    puddy Posts: 12,709 Forumite
    thank you to both of you, thats very useful.

    for clarifcation, i would not have wanted an occupational pension with the LA AND a private pension, I would just have got the personal pension and because I know myself, I would have kept that up whereas with job changes every 6 months or so, plus 2 years back at university and temping jobs mostly where there is no occupational pension has meant that I did in the end start with the original LA, left there about 2 years later, froze that pension, then started another LA pension 8 years after that, transferred the origional LA pension, left that job after 9 months, froze that pension.

    the figures are very interesting, I was hoping that around 400ish per month would give me what I need so assuming 7% and all that (although that seems a bit optimistic to me), I may be alright with that figure, although

    doesnt 12500 - 5600 = 7k(ish)??? not 4300ish??

    I may have misunderstood, but if not surely

    7000 / 2400 = 291pm in a S+S ISA??

    a bit more for me to contribute.

    However, mortgage gets paid off when I am 50, giving me more money to contribute in the later years too
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Sorry about that. Yes, you're right that you'd need £7k or so from the ISA investments, so the ISA monthly amount increases to £291.
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