Devastated ! - Deed of Acknowledgement Error - Help!

colmac71 · 24 February 2009 at 5:11PM

Hi All

Just found out today that I''ve made a devastating error
I went br on 18 April last year
I was in a joint mortgage with my ex partner
My ex partner went br in June
we voluntary surrended the house in July (i moved out in May) -
my ex moved out previously but I post the keys to him, but then my ex went br in June (unknown to me at the time)

In July Nothern Rock were got us to sign a form - which when I took initial advice seemed to be fine
Since then NR have sold the house and now my ex-partner has received notification that there's £60k outstanding - they say cause we signed a DEED OF ACKNOWLEDGEMENT we are liable - even tho that we are both br

I spoke with a case clerk (very very very nice woman) at RTLU in Newcastle-Under-Lyme, who was very helpful and said the following

If I didnt have any assets (which I don't) then I could go br again -

I do pay almost £500 a month in to my IPA

I didn't know that this was possible - has any one else had experience of the acknowledgement deed - and the concequences, and what shall I do

She said for me not to chase them - but wait until Northern Rock chase me, they've only contacted my ex-partner so far (a few weeks ago) - but I don't want to be in the position where i'm 2 years in to my IPA and I have to start all over again

Help!

And also please please make sure anyone else learns from this silly, very silly mistake!!!

copier_guy · 24 February 2009 at 5:25PM

Thanks for the post, hope you get sorted with some good info.

We are waiting for the Chelsea to take our old house, they have sent the Vol Repo letter but we have not signed it or sent it back.

We live in Stoke!!

So_Sad_Angel · 24 February 2009 at 6:06PM

colmac71 wrote: »

Hi All

Since then NR have sold the house and now my ex-partner has received notification that there's £60k outstanding - they say cause we signed a DEED OF ACKNOWLEDGEMENT we are liable - even tho that we are both br

Help!

And also please please make sure anyone else learns from this silly, very silly mistake!!!

Hi Colmac.....good to see you again but so sorry to hear about the situation. Can I ask did you sign the DOA before or after you went BR....if it was after your April BR then I`m not sure that it is enforceable is it??

After all you would be BR therefore not able to take on liablility of further debt ( ie the shortfall).

Can anyone clarify this ???

I am being chased by NR to sign but avoiding calls at the moment . They seemed to have upped the calls at the moment !!

Angelxx

Ps Colmac...sorry to hear that you & your OH split....BR is so often more than just money !!

colmac71 · 24 February 2009 at 6:08PM

hi again
- yes both signed the DOA after going BR
we split prior to the br - tis life i suppose! but thanks

So_Sad_Angel · 24 February 2009 at 6:18PM

Maybe someone can advise if DOA signed AFTER BR is enforceable...I would really like to know. As an undischarged you cannot take any debt liablility ...that is my understanding.

If get no reply Colmac...try & PM Debt Doctor or Richard_S

You raise a very important issue especially with the steep rise in repossessions.

Other than this has your year been better after BR ???

peachyprice · 24 February 2009 at 6:21PM

So_Sad_Angel wrote: »

Hi Colmac.....good to see you again but so sorry to hear about the situation. Can I ask did you sign the DOA before or after you went BR....if it was after your April BR then I`m not sure that it is enforceable is it?? After all you would be BR therefore not able to take on liablility of further debt ( ie the shortfall).

Hi SSA,

I don't think that is the case, you are allowed to take on debt after BR as long as you tell the person, NR were aware of BR

This is from the IS manual, but seems a bit contradictory to me, as it says you've agreed to be liable, but the shortfall is still a proveable debt. Maybe someone else can confirm what it means?

40.34B Treatment of shortfall – deed of acknowledgement
(May 2008)
Alternatively, the bankrupt may sign a deed of acknowledgement (see Chapter 33, paragraph 33.127), which acknowledges his/her responsibility for the secured debt or guarantees payment. In doing so, after the bankruptcy order date, the bankrupt has entered into an agreement to post bankruptcy liability for any shortfall, which if such shortfall arises following sale, also remains valid as a debt provable in bankruptcy.

33.154 Deeds of acknowledgement of debt
A secured creditor may request a bankrupt to complete a deed of acknowledgement of debt when the sale of the property results in a shortfall. A secured creditor may request this transaction so that no dispute will arise as to the amount of the shortfall or so that proposals to repay the unsecured portion of the debt by instalments can be settled. However, the secured creditor is entitled to claim in the bankruptcy for the unsecured balance of its debt and it will be up to the trustee to deal with such a claim. If the bankrupt completes such a deed, a new debt might be created on which recovery action might be based at any time within the limitation limit. It is not for the official receiver to influence the bankrupt about how to proceed in this matter. The official receiver should consent to the completion of a deed of acknowledgement of debt and if he/she becomes aware that the bankrupt has been requested to provide such a deed, the official receiver should suggest that the bankrupt seeks his/her own legal advice.

colmac71 · 24 February 2009 at 6:32PM

Hello again Angel,
yeah life was better after BR until i heard of this
It's devastated me now!!

So_Sad_Angel · 24 February 2009 at 6:42PM

peachyprice wrote: »

,...........quote section 33.154 ........a new debt MIGHT be created on which recovery action might be based at any time within the limitation limit. It is not for the official receiver to influence the bankrupt about how to proceed in this matter. The OFFICIAL RECEIVER SHOULD CONSENT the the completion of a deed of acknowledgement of debt and if he/she becomes aware that the bankrupt has been requested to provide such a deed, the official receiver should suggest that the bankrupt seeks his/her own legal advice.

I agree Peacy !

Very sketchy ....so the new `unsecured` debt created by the DOA only `MIGHT ` be subject to the 12 year limitation period.

Also the OR needed to CONSENT to the signing of said DOA.

Is that right....have I understood that correctly ????

If so Colmac...

1. MAY only be liable ( within statue barred 12 yrs)
2. would have needed OR permission to sign it & should have been recommended ILA ( Independant Legal Advice) before signing.

colmac71 · 24 February 2009 at 6:47PM

interesting!!
How should I proceed with this now - who should i contact ?
Thank you for the posts so far but please keep them coming!

So_Sad_Angel · 24 February 2009 at 6:54PM

Sounds all very `may/might` be etc to me.

I would get ILA on the matter...& also lets see what others come up with.

I really fail to see how an undischarged bankrupt is able to take on a 60k unsecured debt !!! I may be a bit niiave here but is that not the whole point of BR ??

in any case worst case senario is that you have to go through the process twice but I would contest the situation before you take that position.

Off for my tea now.....

Take care, Angexx

blind-as-a-bat_2 · 24 February 2009 at 7:47PM

colmac71 wrote: »

interesting!!
How should I proceed with this now - who should i contact ?
Thank you for the posts so far but please keep them coming!

In short you need to seek profesional legal advice, the thing is, it is highly unlikely you realised the implications of what you where signing, and even less likely NR explained the implications.

This is a very grey area in law, if it was so simple to make a debt survive BR every credit card and loan would have a simaler clause in it's agreements.

trouble is as far as i know it has not been challenged in law yet

If the law or legaslation followed commen sence there is no way signing such a document would stand up in court, but unfortuanatly commen sence doest always apply.

If i where you i would try and find a solicitor that speicializes in insolvancy law that gives free half hour consultation to find out where you stand

Devastated ! - Deed of Acknowledgement Error - Help!

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