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[whitewing]

tinalou,

well done. Lloyds TSB debit card refund successful!

C'mon everyone, tell us what you're claiming and when your claim is successful. As Gomer says, it is YOUR money, not Mr Mears', not the bank, not the tax man, not the liquidators; your money for an experience that you did not receive.

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ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post17633351

[GomerPyle]

It's on teletext now, page 124

All reports are saying that customers will not get their money back. I'm sure that this is not some conspiracy but

THIS IS NOT TRUE

PUT IN YOUR CHARGEBACK CLAIM NOW

If you paid by cheque tell me where you posted or delivered it.

Then I'll let you know how to deal with that issue.

I find it hard to believe that Streamline/RBS would provide a potential £2m merchant facility to an individual whose record is a criminal one. It is therefore most likely that any money they pay you will come from the liquidated proceeds of any security they hold, which won't be available to you if you claim as a creditor.

Therefore in getting your money back, you are also quite possibly making Mr Vic Mears understand the error of his ways.

[whitewing]

From the Bournemouth/Daily Echo (disappointingly the official line)

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/new...Y_LIQUIDATION/


And Southern Daily Echo

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4033...o_liquidation/

And The Argus

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/40338..._be_wound_up_/


As Gomer says, still well worth putting in your chargeback. He'll help you. If you wait for the claim form from the accountants you are less likely to get your money back (if I've understood Gomer correctly). So do it now.

__________________________________________________ ____________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post17633351

[GomerPyle]

Yes whitewing

if customers wait to make a claim from the company liquidators, they will only get paid back after the liquidator's fees, H M Revenue and Customs and bank fees have been deducted, and they will get a proportion of whatever is left along with other creditors, such as contractors, and even people like the land owners, if they haven't already been paid.

Customers have one avenue available to them that isn't available to those mentioned and that is CHARGEBACK and it will be very hard for Lapland New Forest Ltd to put up any defence as their incompetence and inability to put on the event, caused the failure of the company.

Now I'm getting into arguments on the newspaper websites with people who appear to believe doing nothing is the best option, which it is if you don't want your money back, I suppose !

It's even on the Sussex Police Federation site as a feed

http://www.sussexpolfed.org/

[whitewing]

I really still do not understand why Trading Standards can arrange refunds for Lapland West Midlands, but not for Lapland New Forest.

Please can someone explain this to me.

__________________________________________________ ____________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post17633351

[GomerPyle]

Friends in high places ? :confused:

[whitewing]

My questions for today....

1. Why can Carol Dean of Trading Standards arrange for a full refund of the children's 'Christmas treat' money for every person who paid online for Lapland West Midlands, but Ivan Hancock of Trading Standards cannot arrange the same for Lapland New Forest?

2. On 4th January, the Daily Echo stated 'It’s about making sure that every person who warrants a refund gets one, whether they turned up to be let down or never had the chance to visit after it closed.' What will be their next step in their campaign to get the money back to all disappointed children and their families?

3. Press reports suggest that £2 million's worth of Lapland New Forest tickets were purchased by families, social clubs and charities. How much of their money will Grant Thorton be paid?

4. RBS/Streamline provided the payment facility for this company. What have they got to say for themselves?

__________________________________________________ ____________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post17633351

[GomerPyle]

It has to be said that Dorset Trading Standards deserve an award for twiddling their fingers and stating the blinking obvious, while the problem does 'a runner' with the passage of time.

In comparison Staffordshire Council appear to have behaved like testosterone fuelled psychos, but they only did thir job with ruthless efficiency, and that job is to protect the consumer. Effectively Dorset have done the opposite and are allowing the perpetrators to exit 'stage left' unscathed. You could be forgiven at times for thinking that they were acting as spokesmen for Lapland New Forest Ltd.

Not only are they not protecting consumers, but what they don't appear to realise is, they are tarnishing the reputation of honest traders locally. Who would bother to visit an event in Brighton now ? In being so pathetically ineffective they lead the public to believe that any event run in Brighton or locality, runs a very good possibility of being run by 'spivs' and 'chancers'.

In failing to do their job, and I find it hard to think of any positive action they have taken that has achieved anything apart from spending a bucketload of money on a barrister, they have achieved the double whammy of leaving consumers unprotected and sullied the reputation of Brighton worldwide.

For clarification I notice that Henry Mears is NOT the son of Victor Mears, as I originally believed, but his brother as is currently being reported, and Victor Mears is the uncle (not great uncle) of Mary Mears, the leader of Brighton Council. Not quite the distant relative she would have us believe.

Maybe the performance of their Trading Standards will be an issue come the next elections in Brighton.

[EdnaCloud]

1) Could it be differences between Paypal (LWM payment processor) and Streamline (LNF payment processor)? I suspect Paypal are more responsive and do not imagine themselves above the law that possibly other parties do. I use Paypal to receive payments (I have since they became established here) and they are very responsive to 'chargebacks' (fortunately I have only ever had one and that was resolved satisfactorily) and come down quickly and hard on traders who step out of line. Also, if you recall some many posts ago I gave Paypal the heads up as I'm sure lots of people did, I received an email the following day saying they where aware of the situation but could not provide details etc etc, so I wonder if they had a heads up before TS got involved with them.

2) will it be quietly forgotten?

3) It depends on how much time they have to spend unpicking the mess, but I would guestimate somewhere between 50 and 150K - but that is only 'gut feel'.

4) I doubt they will say anything, especially now. It will be the old legal and personal comment if anything, i.e. cannot reveal details about individual cases, cannot comment on cases that are being investigated etc etc.

When this whole debacle is sorted out GT have to send all creditors a breakdown of company assets, their own costs, HM customs and revenue payments, payments to employees, payments to secured creditors (which Streamline may be) and unsecured creditors. That is also the order payouts are generally made, however I am not a liquidation expert. It would great if a creditor could share that with us if that is allowed, but I believe this information is in the public domain if not well publicised.

rgds
Edna

[whitewing]

2. On 4th January, the Daily Echo stated 'It’s about making sure that every person who warrants a refund gets one, whether they turned up to be let down or never had the chance to visit after it closed.' What will be their next step in their campaign to get the money back to all disappointed children and their families?

Nothing on this so far, although it does concede that some debit card payers have had refunds:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4034...n_liquidation/

Salisbury Journal

http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/ne...o_liquidation/

__________________________________________________ ____________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post17633351

[GomerPyle]

It has to be conceded that Staffs County Council had the benefit of being aware of what was coming their way in good time, and the fact that it appears that the only payment processor involved was Paypal, but they still acted in a far more purposeful and direct manner than Dorset TS. They didn't allow the matter to get out of hand, and thus had less of a problem to deal with - result everyone happy, except the event organisers.

Will it be brushed under the carpet ? I doubt it to judge from the comments about the Mears family from locals. This has only served to drag their reputation lower than it was already, and it was pretty low before.

Even without any repercussions I would expect no bank to touch any future business proposition of the Mears family with a bargepole. No sensible bank would hold their account as the bad publicity, expense and effort involved in handling it is not worth it. Banks are businesses and are under no obligation to hold any person's account. It is clear that RBS consider Streamline to be their little gem, and to risk its reputation over an ex-con and chancer from Brighton is ridiculous.

I doubt they have enhanced their reputations either among fellow ex-cons. They'll be back, but probably selling dodgey gear from a market stall which is more their natural place in life.

[whitewing]

Mail on Sunday:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/a...goes-bust.html

And from the Sun:

Lapland shambles boss: We are broke


"Up to 50,000 people could be out of pocket because of the collapse of Lapland New Forest.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2112228.ece

Victor Mears, the director of Lapland New Forest Ltd, has asked for the business to be put into liquidation.
Customers, who paid up to £30 each for tickets, have been told they will receive forms to make a claim against the firm – but they are unlikely to get a refund."


So again, out of the customers' £30 ticket price, how much will go to Grant Thornton? And are Grant Thorton actually choosing to take this on?
__________________________________________________ ____________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post17633351

[EdnaCloud]

Referring to Whitewing and my earlier post, doing some calculation would *suggest* somewhere between 1 and 3 GBP of each ticket would go to GT, but we have to be careful about speculation. From previous experience of being a creditor of a company in liquidation their costs will not be announced until they have prepared the financial statement, i.e. they know how long they have spent and how long they are likely to spend on the case.

As to how the remainder is divided up we do not know how much is actually left in escrow with Streamline, ergo, we do not know how much has already been 'salted away' and be inaccessible to the liquidators. (Sadly, devious persons are quite able to cover up personal income with valid invoices, so for example if a Mr J Bloggs had been employed as a 'sales consultant' Mr Bloggs could have legitimately been paid any reasonable amount without the liquidator necessarily questioning it. The fact that Mr Bloggs gives a brown envelope to someone else in the local pub is of course a separate issue. That is just one example). Further, we have no idea how much of the liquidated asset (probably only cash at Streamline - I don't imagine there will be a lot of income from the sale of second hand sheds, sorry log cabins, particularly at this time of year and with their besmirched history, and I can't imagine there are any other physical assets) will be due to revenue and customs. I expect the VAT element (regarless of lack of VAT registration- the turnover exceeds VAT registration limits by a a number of factors of 10), will have to be paid, thus taking 17.5 or 15% straight out. There may be other penalties due. Secured creditors other than HM revenue and customs we do not know about nor employees, but it is possible, although unlikely, that agencies who provided staff could be considered employees so their costs will come off the amount of liquidated asset. It is possible the DTS legal costs will be agains the assets also. This is, in my experience, typically why, where there is any asset remaining, unsecured creditors end up with a few pennies or fractions of a penny in the pound.

[GomerPyle]

It was voluntary in the same way that a knocked out boxer voluntarily concedes defeat when he's lying flat out on his back in a boxing ring.

This company was always going to end up in voluntary liquidation, in my opinion, but it would have been planned that all the lovely money would have been pillaged by then. The question is how much money was removed before the funds were frozen by Streamline ? If Streamline had any sense, then it wouldn't have been very much, but you'd have to ask how the paltry amount spent on setting up the event was raised. I imagine that it was self-financing in that some of the funds received in advance were used to pay for what was seen by visitors, and there were also the fees obtained from contractors providing hotdog stalls and the like. Take the punters' money up front - spend a fraction on tinsel and glitter - then run off with the rest - Luvvly Jubbly.

I doubt that the Mears family have managed to clear much money and that the pressure to go into liquidation would have come from their bank. Who else was involved ? The bank would not like to be stuck in this situation indefinitely and would make it clear to Mr Mears that, as it stood, he would not receive a bean - not that he is likely to get anything now anyway. The longer the company exists, the more incoming 'flak' it will attract. HM Revenue and Customs and other investigatory bodies will only become more interested if the company exists as a 'zombie'. Mr Mears might actually have to start behaving like a Company Managing Director and provide accounts and conform to his regulatory obligations, and if he failed to do that, then it would also reflect on his bankers who hold the account frozen.

If he doesn't do what RBS/Sreamline say I'm sure they'd tighten the screws on him. I doubt he could do anything 'legit' if he tried, so they'd have plenty on him. The bank wants out - and quick.

The result is that Vic Mears probably won't meet the fate he deserves, but he won't be getting any company bonus after the liquidators, banks and tax man have had their whack. It also probably means that anyone applying for money through the liquidators will be unlucky, which is why I keep urging customers to get their CHARGEBACK claims in NOW!!!

At least the Mears family name is now internationally reviled and the chance of any future business proposition of theirs succeeding is most unlikely, not that they put much effort into achieving success.

Fool me once - shame on you - fool me twice - shame on me. I'll spend my seaside money elsewhere.

[EdnaCloud]

Gomer, we are in violent agreement! I think given the urgency of the situation now one thing we could all perhaps do is to contact as many media outlets as we can with Gomer's good advice to claim chargeback ASAP, because, sadly there are probably many people out there who have not seen this thread, or those on other sites.

Can we spread the word?

rgds
Edna

[whitewing]

Edna,

I wonder if MSE Martin would be able to send out an email? (It is his forum after all).

__________________________________________________ ____________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post17633351

[EdnaCloud]

Whitewing:- good idea - anyone know his personal email addie?

I also think contacting local and national press is worthwhile, it may or may not be effective but after all it will only take a few minutes of our time.

Edna, off to email all and sundry.

[GomerPyle]

I don't think any of us disagree EdnaCloud. We just have our own views and comments to add to the discussion and thread.

It's amazing to think that a major UK city can be run like some US hick town with a family having such an all pervading detrimental effect, but I imagine that their fortunes are going to face a downturn as they are exposed as a liability to the honest citizens and traders - and on that point it is interesting that no traders or contractors have joined the discussion, as I imagine that many of them will be losing money over this too.

I do recall, by the way, that one employment agency mentioned that they had had the foresight to get the salaries paid up front. Strange that a small company can see what's coming and a major bank can't.

I have posted comments on a couple of newspaper sites and will do so in many more places on the web. One person responded that I was giving financial advice, but that's tosh, I was just pointing out a right people had which was supported by the FSA - regulatory body to all UK Financial Institutions.

This is the end game and last chance for people to get what they are owed. If the authorities wish to sweep the matter under the carpet, so be it, but our intent would be to only allow that to happen after everyone has had their money back.

I know the FOS procedures, and I can put in complaints on people's behalves and it won't cost anything. It'll take work and effort by both of us but I'm prepared to do it once people have gone through all the correct procedures and we can guide people through them too - but time is running out.

Each complaint costs the company money and they'll have to hire a solicitor to handle technical banking arguments. There's no guarantee of success, but even if I can't win an argument, I like to give opponents a 'bloody nose'.

This company failed as a result of being a one product provider that failed to provide what it advertised, and in spite of wild accusations of media lies, they never took any legal action in support of that ridiculous contention, because they knew it was rubbish. Victor Mears has effectively walked away from the company as it had only one function for him - to pour money into his pocket. If it is left failing to operate in any normal sense like a company, this becomes immediately apparent.

[EdnaCloud]

Originally Posted by GomerPyle

I don't think any of us disagree EdnaCloud. We just have our own views and comments to add to the discussion and thread.

Indeed, I just hope we are helping some as there seem to be very few people posting now...

It's amazing to think that a major UK city can be run like some US hick town with a family having such an all pervading detrimental effect,

Sadly I do not think this is unusual - I live in major town and a huge amount of the business is run or controlled by one extended family - and they are 'travellers', it is appalling and a sort of local cosa nostra ring.

but I imagine that their fortunes are going to face a downturn as they are exposed as a liability to the honest citizens and traders - and on that point it is interesting that no traders or contractors have joined the discussion, as I imagine that many of them will be losing money over this too.

well we cannot say for sure they have not, or may have been lurking, but it would have been good to have their input. Ho hum.

I do recall, by the way, that one employment agency mentioned that they had had the foresight to get the salaries paid up front. Strange that a small company can see what's coming and a major bank can't.

I am still flabbergasted that the bank ever entertained this, I have traded for years with nary a complaint but even trying to get credit card acceptance is hard, new bank accounts are a no-no and online payment procesors want (justifiably) a load of documentation before accepting an account, how in hell did this happen?

I have posted comments on a couple of newspaper sites and will do so in many more places on the web.

Good on you, so will I.

This is the end game and last chance for people to get what they are owed.

So we have to 'go for it'.

I do hope claimants are still watching this thread - if so please come out of the woodwork and lend your support and most importantly get those claims in!

rgds
Edna

[spark0101]

Hi All

Just to let you know I sent a letter using the temp plate letter from this web site to Barclay visa on the 4 December, and today received a reply saying my £100 has been credited to my account

Regards Mark the Spark