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EU bail out - Could we cope?

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They have just failed to reach agreement in the US Congress - with only one legislature and one national government.

Roger Bootle in the Telegraph

"....Can you imagine the difficulties of trying to organise a cross-country bail-out involving the ECB, national central banks, national governments, the European Commission, national parliaments and the European Parliament? Now that really would be a dog’s breakfast :eek: "
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Comments

  • ad9898_3
    ad9898_3 Posts: 3,858 Forumite
    At least the thought of a Brown mortgage bailout now is less than zero.
  • Telegraph - ECB loses traction as the crisis hits Europe

    "The global credit crisis has slammed into Europe with stunning violence over the last two days, triggering five major bank rescues and a near total shut-down of the region's credit markets...........

    ....."The ECB is no longer able to inject liquidity because the money is just coming back to them again [from banks unwilling to lend to us or each other]....

    .....The combined crises at both Fortis and Dexia have sent tremors through Belgium, which is already traumatized by political civil war between the Flemings and Walloons. Fortis is Belgium's the biggest private employer. It is unclear whether the country has the resources to bail out two banks with liabilities that dwarf the economy if the crisis deepens, although a joint intervention by The Netherlands and Luxembourg to rescue Fortis has helped Belgium share the risk. Together the three states put €11.2bn to buy Fortis stock.
    This tripartite model is unlikely to work so well in others parts of Europe, since Benelux already operates as a closely linked team. The EU lacks a single treasury to take charge in a fast-moving crisis, leaving a patchwork of regulators and conflicting agendas......"

    [France is intervening to help out Dexia even though it is Belgian.]

    FT - Reform and action are needed

    "The key issue for Europe is not only that its largest banks are vulnerable because they have high leverage, but that they have grown too big to be saved by any single government.....

    ......One problem is that large European banks typically have subsidiaries – separate legal entities with separate balance sheets – in each country where they operate. At the same time, asset and liability management is centralised, as are cash and liquidity reserves, which at times of stress will be ordered back to the parent, with subsidiaries receiving in exchange paper which would be worthless in case of insolvency. When failure comes and governments step in, burden-sharing among national treasuries and issues of equal treatment of creditors and depositors in different countries are bound to be controversial, delaying decisions...."

    Cometh the hour, cometh the man ;).

    Times - Sarkozy calls for unified European response to the crisis
    But on a case, by case basis - no Paulson like bail-out plan yet.
  • baby_boomer
    baby_boomer Posts: 3,883 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    iii - German government disagrees with France 100% :rotfl:

    "Germany completely disagrees with reported French plans to propose a European Union rescue package for banks, the Finance Ministry said on Wednesday.

    Earlier, an EU government source told Reuters the package would be worth 300 billion euros ($424.4 billion)...."
  • Generali
    Generali Posts: 36,411 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Isn't this the problem with having banks that operate across borders? Citibank operates in lots of countries for example. If they go bust, who bails them out? More to the point, why should they be bailed out?
  • wymondham
    wymondham Posts: 6,356 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Mortgage-free Glee!
    I find this whole bail out thing puzzling.

    A bank is a private business, and when things are going well they are pretty much left alone to make profits for their members/shareholders etc like any other business. When things get tough they are not allowed to fail and are bailed out with public money.

    It begs the question how can you have a private company as a bank? it does not seem to be compatible. I can't see how a bank can live in both worlds.

    It would be the same with electricity and water etc.... the Governemnt is happy for it to be private and look after itself, but they would not be allowed to fail either..

    Is it just me or does this whole idea not make any sense?? :confused:

    I suppose the answer is any essential service must be nationalised as how can you have a private business protected from the market by the state?
  • mewbie_2
    mewbie_2 Posts: 6,058 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    That's dangerous commie talk there wymondham.
  • wymondham
    wymondham Posts: 6,356 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Mortgage-free Glee!
    mewbie wrote: »
    That's dangerous commie talk there wymondham.

    not looked at it that way!! :rolleyes: (capitalism does not seem to have worked though!!)

    Can anyone else see any other way forward though??

    My plan B is become a banker as soon as possible (and no funny play on words here!!)
  • sdooley
    sdooley Posts: 918 Forumite
    Any essential service must be regulated effectively.

    Nationalisation is only one form of regulation, and doesn't of itself stop profiteering (think of all the Russian and Chinese oligarchs who have made their money from 'nationalised' enterprise).
  • wymondham
    wymondham Posts: 6,356 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Mortgage-free Glee!
    sdooley wrote: »
    Any essential service must be regulated effectively.

    Nationalisation is only one form of regulation, and doesn't of itself stop profiteering (think of all the Russian and Chinese oligarchs who have made their money from 'nationalised' enterprise).

    Yes, but can you see regulation of private companies coming up with something effective enough? They have to look after shareholders interest, which will always come first in a private company (and rightly so). The main aim of private companies is to make money first, and offer a service secondly - the service is something that mearly allows them to make their money! I think the actions over the last few weeks have proved this point!
  • Generali
    Generali Posts: 36,411 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    sdooley wrote: »
    Any essential service must be regulated effectively.

    That doesn't mean they should be prevented from going bust though.

    For example if Eurotunnel goes bust tomorrow, the liquidator/official receiver isn't going to fill in the Channel Tunnel. The wealth remains despite the company going bust. Similarly if the gas board is bust then the infratructure for getting gas to people is still there.

    It's the same with banks. I'm increasingly of the opinion that this whole bailout thing is a load of cr a p with us being the ones that are being told to pay for it.
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