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Debate House Prices
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5k+ homes bought with HTB1 in 6 months
Comments
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HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Being anti-HTB is trying to stop someone being able to buy a house.
You want to try and keep house prices down by preventing loads of people from buying houses.
Which is frankly a bonkers proposition.
swive me.
you've gushed that particular kidney stone of wisdom enough times now to suggest that you're at least partly serious about trying to pass it off as sense.
so is that it, really, all of the miles of column inches, all of the negative publicity, the entire HTB debate really boils down to whether or not you want people to buy houses [yay] or not buy houses [boo, hiss], there are no other issues at all?FACT.0 -
Loughton_Monkey wrote: »Re-read my paragraph above showing (a) and (b). HTB1 was specifically aimed at category (a) and specifically not intended to apply to category (b) so why criticise it for that?
Re-read my opening post.
You'll find I don't have issue, so why you are trying so hard to mock together a response which takes issue is beyond me.0 -
the_flying_pig wrote: »the entire HTB debate really boils down to whether or not you want people to buy houses [yay] or not buy houses [boo, hiss], there are no other issues at all?
The entire HTB2 debate really does boil down to whether or not you believe that......
1) It's a good thing to keep house prices artificially repressed by preventing most people from buying houses thanks to restricting mortgage availability.
or....
2) It would be better to restore historically normal, sensible and prudent mortgage availability to the masses and let affordability constraints and income decide who gets to buy or not.
I tend to believe the latter is preferable to the former.
You can believe otherwise if you wish...“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The entire HTB2 debate really does boil down to whether or not you believe that......
This is about HTB1, incase you hadn't noticed.
I think you had noticed though and are simply confusing the situation, yet again, to make your point stand.
Your rather stupid argument that if you don't support HTB, you don't want people buying houses.... where does this stop?
If you don't support people taking 125% mortgage? What about 175% mortgages? Would you still claim that if you don't support this you want to stop people buying houses?
If this is the debating level you are now down too, surely even you have to question yourself?0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The entire HTB2 debate really does boil down to whether or not you believe that......
1) It's a good thing to keep house prices artificially repressed by preventing most people from buying houses thanks to restricting mortgage availability.
or....
2) It would be better to restore historically normal, sensible and prudent mortgage availability to the masses and let affordability constraints and income decide who gets to buy or not.
I tend to believe the latter is preferable to the former.
You can believe otherwise if you wish...
i'll take that, overlooking the sub-EA babble, as a 'yes'.
if i've not said so before i'll say now that if sincere this viewpoint puts you globally in a minority of, oh, one or so.FACT.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Re-read my opening post.
You'll find I don't have issue, so why you are trying so hard to mock together a response which takes issue is beyond me.
Oh you are the 8th wonder of the world, and so precious to the humour on this board.
I can re-read your opening post 54 times and will still come away with the conclusion that you "don't have much of an issue with HTB1".
Leaving aside the fact that this is at variance to your 1,456 posts thundering against it at the time, I think you should re-read your post #6 - the one to which I was directly referring. You were clearly talking about HSB1 but moaning that it won't help those without the means to buy. I merely pointed out it wasn't meant to.
If you calmed down - Read the posts - More importantly understand the posts, before ranting - then maybe you wouldn't get yourself into the muddles you do. If you can't see that, there's little more anyone can do to help you.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »The entire HTB2 debate really does boil down to whether or not you believe that......
1) It's a good thing to keep house prices artificially repressed by preventing most people from buying houses thanks to restricting mortgage availability.
or....
2) It would be better to restore historically normal, sensible and prudent mortgage availability to the masses and let affordability constraints and income decide who gets to buy or not.
I tend to believe the latter is preferable to the former.
You can believe otherwise if you wish...
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that suddenly there are lots of 95% mortgages available from lenders who are not taking part in the HTB scheme(s). How does that work?
TruckerTAccording to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.0 -
reminds of me of something i read today. i'm not saying that it uniquely & perfectly explains every last thing that's going on [i'll leave that kind of silly hyperbole to the usual debt cheerleading suspects] but it's an interesting perspective nonetheless.
background was tonight's BBCQT.
the economist andrew lilico tweeted: "The house price issue is /not/ abt not enough houses being built. That's almost irrelevant. Less thn 1% of housing stock is new build #bbcqt"
some bloke replied "That reflects extrm lack of building and demonstrates stagnating supply in face of growing demand fuelled by pop gwth and h2b"
reply to that was "No. We don't have any lack of houses. High house prices are demand-driven not supply-driven."
and then the following was linked.
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2012/12/andrew-lilico-the-2011-census-data-confirm-once-and-for-all-that-the-notion-of-a-housing-shortage-in.htmlFACT.0 -
the_flying_pig wrote: »if i've not said so before i'll say now that if sincere this viewpoint puts you globally in a minority of, oh, one or so.
Heh heh....
Lets look at who else is in the category of "one or so" then shall we....
The Prime Minister of the UK.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/10439606/David-Cameron-95pc-mortgages-will-help-people-buy-their-dream-home.html"Mr Cameron said: “Four weeks in and it's clear that Help to Buy is already delivering. In just one month, over 2,000 people have been accepted for a Help to Buy mortgage. Or put another way, 75 families every single day have been put on the path to owning their dream home.
“But the best thing about Help to Buy isn't the statistics - it's who is really benefiting. Most Help to Buy applicants are first time buyers, young and have a roughly average household income. This is all about helping hardworking people get on the first rung of the property ladder - and helping them get on in life.
“Owning a home is about more than four walls to sleep at night. It's about independence, self-reliance, moving on and moving up. Above all, it's about aspiration. Help to Buy is helping people realise the dream of home ownership - and it's a key part of my plan for Britain.”
Lets see what else he said...‘I would argue: you need to get out more and listen to ordinary people who want to buy a home who can afford mortgage payments. They’ve got good jobs but they can’t get a mortgage… Because of the damage done to our banks they are not offering the 90-95 per cent mortgages which have been part of our life for many many years.’
‘Currently they are trapped in rental accommodation, paying high rent to somebody else for their home.’
‘I don’t want to be the Prime Minister who stands aside and says: you can only buy a flat in this country if you have got rich parents.’
‘The big difference today is that the mortgage market isn’t working… there is a market failure here which the government is trying to correct which will help hard-working people.’
Now.... Lets see.
Who should we listen to?
The Prime Minister of the UK, or some random internet nutter that posts on a forum (hpc) dedicated to bringing on a crash in house prices no matter what the cost to society.
Well gosh....
Tough choice.
Not.:)“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
the_flying_pig wrote: »the economist andrew lilico tweeted:
Lillico's "analysis", read delusion, completely fails to take into account the following:
1) The rise in single person households over the last few decades
2) The rise in multi-family households and HMO-s over the last few decades
The long term trend towards the population's need for decreasing household size, as an ageing population and higher divorce rates lead to a higher level of natural consumption of housing, has been offset by increased numbers of HMO-s to maintain the blunt average household size.
We don't let people freeze and die in the streets.
We will always find a way to make the population fit in the current housing stock.
This doesn't, of course, mean there isn't a shortage of housing.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0
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