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Mad mortgage application process!

2

Comments

  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    TurnUpForTheBooks wrote: »
    Has anyone in the UK yet read this ? I have a feeling it marks a big change that actually occurred a year ago but has been unheralded and untested !

    Seems to be covered within exclusions for Financial Services.
    Providers of financial services (such as insurance companies and banks) will continue to be able to use a person’s age as a factor in assessing risk and charging for their products. They will also be able to continue to use age banding and age limits and to specialise in products only for certain age groups. However, in making any risk assessments based on age, the company must base its assessment on relevant information from a source in which it is reasonable to rely.
    Individuals will be able to challenge a financial service provider if they think a risk assessment is arbitrarily based on their age rather than on relevant information from a reliable source.
  • Building_Surveyor
    Building_Surveyor Posts: 668 Forumite
    TurnUpForTheBooks wrote: »
    Has anyone in the UK yet read this ? I have a feeling it marks a big change that actually occurred a year ago but has been unheralded and untested !

    What use is this to the thread? - financial services, have you read that section? ...in fact there appears to be a long list of exceptions...
    An opinion is just that..... An opinion
  • TurnUpForTheBooks_2
    TurnUpForTheBooks_2 Posts: 436 Forumite
    edited 3 November 2013 at 3:42PM
    Building Surveyor, this thread highlighted age discrimination in the mortgage application process. My contribution shows that if there is any lack of objective justification for that discrimination then the discrimination is unlawful.

    Have you analysed the allowable defences ? Do you know how they might be tested ?

    Your signature suggests you may yet be a little wet behind the ears ;)

    So have you got anything more useful to add ?
    From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "
  • Building_Surveyor
    Building_Surveyor Posts: 668 Forumite
    TurnUpForTheBooks wrote: »
    Building Surveyor, this thread highlighted age discrimination in the mortgage application process. My contribution shows that if there is any lack of objective justification for that discrimination then the discrimination is unlawful.

    Have you analysed the allowable defences ? Do you know how they might be tested ?

    Your signature suggests you may yet be a little wet behind the ears ;)

    So have you got anything more useful to add ?

    !!!!!! are you talking about? Analyse the defences? Frankly I've got better things to do, you clearly have too much time on your hands.

    Have you analysed it, you sound like you've done a lot of research:rotfl:, what is your conclusion and based on what exactly?

    It took me 2 minutes to read under the header, financial exclusions as another poster did! I don't need or want to analyse anything thank you very much!
    An opinion is just that..... An opinion
  • TurnUpForTheBooks_2
    TurnUpForTheBooks_2 Posts: 436 Forumite
    edited 3 November 2013 at 4:05PM
    Building_Surveyor wrote: »
    !!!!!! are you talking about? Analyse the defences? Frankly I've got better things to do, you clearly have too much time on your hands.

    Have you analysed it, you sound like you've done a lot of research:rotfl:, what is your conclusion and based on what exactly?

    It took me 2 minutes to read under the header, financial exclusions as another poster did! I don't need or want to analyse anything thank you very much!
    Yes you do before you make instant judgements like this.

    I have analysed your signature and in a few moments assessed that you have barely lived. Do you appreciate how Equality Law has rapidly evolved in the last decade? Have you ever been near a court room in an age discrimination case, or read a judgement ? No. Thought not. You don't have time do you? Your loss eventually (we all get old :rotfl:)
    From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "
  • Yorkie1
    Yorkie1 Posts: 12,285 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    TurnUpForTheBooks wrote: »
    Yes you do before you make instant judgements like this.

    I have analysed your signature and in a few moments assessed that you have barely lived. Do you appreciate how Equality Law has rapidly evolved in the last decade? Have you ever been near a court room in an age discrimination case, or read a judgement ? No. Thought not. You don't have time do you? Your loss eventually (we all get old :rotfl:)

    Do you realise just how incredibly patronising you are?!
  • Simon_gloster
    Simon_gloster Posts: 948 Forumite
    But the lender can dictate their policy to with no resistance. It can be underwritten yo go beyond certain ages but thats mainly for existing customers.

    The moral of the story is plan the mortgage to end before you retire.

    If you need a loan into or beyond retirement or 75 there are sub prime/prime lenders that do it but expect harsh times in applying.

    Next.
  • TurnUpForTheBooks_2
    TurnUpForTheBooks_2 Posts: 436 Forumite
    Yorkie1 wrote: »
    Do you realise just how incredibly patronising you are?!
    Yes, absolutely (I replied in kind to B_S' first contribution and then adjusted my next response accordingly).

    This is actually quite an interesting area of the law at the moment.

    We grown-ups have been accustomed to letting insurance companies and others apply age limits and to freely exercise other forms of direct age discrimination for the entire duration of all our lives so far.

    Those institutions now need to justify their discriminatory underwriting objectively. In mortgage terms it may not be good enough simply to point at some, or indeed any, notion of a national retirement age any longer. The ability to repay a loan over the longer term is not linked directly to the national retirement age. It is not even indirectly linked to it - it can't be because it has become a moving feast that is likely to be kicked further and further down the road by successive governments without any link to actual ability to work and therefor have an income. Ability to repay is not even directly linked to an existing applicant income. So I think it might be extremely interesting to see the law tested.

    It took some years before Age Discrimination law was tested in its original forms, and the results surprised many who had never before taken the time to accurately interpret or even think about the intention behind the legislation. Now we do finally have the "Goods and Services" part of the law enacted, expect further surprises!
    From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "
  • Simon_gloster
    Simon_gloster Posts: 948 Forumite
    If I don't want to lend you my money based on anyone's age, surely that's my choice if I have historic data proving more delinquents occur at that stage in life?

    That's me being picky, but I'm sure in court all lenders will collate data proving certain things hence a lending policy is born!!!
  • TurnUpForTheBooks_2
    TurnUpForTheBooks_2 Posts: 436 Forumite
    edited 3 November 2013 at 5:10PM
    Simon_gloster wrote: »
    If I don't want to lend you my money based on anyone's age, surely that's my choice if I have historic data proving more delinquents occur at that stage in life?

    That's me being picky, but I'm sure in court all lenders will collate data proving certain things hence a lending policy is born!!!
    Well Simon, if you used that argument as a reason not to lend to me, nearer to retirement (I hope!) than not, then I would gladly take up the challenge as a court case.

    I am interested however (assuming you are talking about mortgage delinquencies and not some other kind) in what risk factors you think may actually cause them? It isn't age itself, so what is it, and why do you think it would be lawful to continue to use age as a proxy if you know the actual factors involved?
    From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "
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