Dealing with Bailiffs Harassment

never-in-doubt · 25 July 2009 at 6:16PM

RobertoMoir wrote: »

Cracking!

On the locked door thing, once a bailiff has gained entry to a house or office, say, locked internal doors are no barrier to them, they can demand they're opened and force them if needs be (maybe most wouldn't because of the hassle but they'd be entitled to).

Sorry if I sound like i'm being awkward, just trying to help

Thanks Roberto - good point. I was explicitly referring to locked external door, as Roberto says an inner porch door for example can be forced as they have broken the houses boundry threshold by being allowed in the porch.

A good example, in the 80's a lot of people had these little annexe porches and left them open, however they were classed as the main front door and so if a Bailiff came and walked in there to then ring the front door bell, even though this is in essense your external door, it is not to them and so they can enter.

Complicated stuff eh?

Thanks Roberto - any more advice would be welcome, you're the ex nasty man aren't you with the experience lol :rotfl:

RobertoMoir · 25 July 2009 at 7:03PM

Depends how much detail you want to go into about bailiffs NID. There's the stuff I generally cut and paste to people giving examples of what is and what isn't peaceful entry kicking around the boards somewhere.

RobertoMoir · 25 July 2009 at 7:33PM

Bailiffs and disputes over debts.
If you have a dispute over the legitimacy of a debt (e.g. you believe the amount of the debt is wrong or you dispute owing it in the first place) then it's often not worth discussing this with the bailiff. While some will halt enforcement of a debt while you dispute it, bailiffs do not have the authority to debate the amount owed on a debt (other than their fees, of course!) and do not have the authority to decide if a debt should be collected or not.

If you dispute a debt, you should do so with the people instructing the bailiff, not the actual bailiff.

Bailiffs and their powers to enter your home.

The "powers" and rights a bailiff has to enter premises and seize goods is not related to the bailiff themselves but rather to the warrant (or rent agreement) they are acting under.

You shouldn't allow bailiffs into your home, but if they have a warrant that allows them to do so it's up to them to attempt to gain entry peacefully, not for you to tell them whether or not you allow them in. This is important because a lot of people interpret the notion of "peaceable entry" as "If I invite them in" and that just isn't the case.

For MOST KINDS of debt:
Unless the bailiff has been into your house already, has levied distress on goods in the house and got you to sign a document called a 'walking possession' then they cannot force their way into your house. There are some exceptions to this rule but we'll put them aside for now.

They only have the right to gain 'peaceable entry' (presuming my assumptions are correct about them not being in before).

Peaceable entry doesn't include kicking your door down or getting a locksmith to drill your locks. This is something they can't do.
Peaceable entry does include tricking someone into letting them in "Oh really? You say you've spoke to the council, can I come in to use your phone to double-check what they said?"
Peaceable entry does include climbing in through an open window or going round the back to try your back door in case you forgot to lock it.
If they push past you, this is not peaceable entry and would be a trespass, rendering any levy carried out illegal.
Kids cannot grant a bailiff entry. Again, an attempt to enforce a debt after kids allowed a bailiff in would be a trespass resulting in an illegal levy.

Bailiffs and Vehicles.

As with any other goods, bailiffs can only take a vehicle for your debt if the vehicle belongs to you. This typically excludes vehicles on a hire purchase scheme or similar.
If a bailiff makes a visit to your property and no one is in, they can and often will make an assumption that a vehicle on the drive or possibly even in the street outside the house is yours and will levy upon it. That doesn't mean that they can take it if it belongs to someone else, but it does mean that the someone else who owns it will need to prove that they own it.
A vehicle used in the course of your employment cannot be seized.
This DOES NOT include "My car, because without it the commute is a pain and the kids will actually have to walk to school without it, too."
It DOES include "My car, because I'm a self-employed taxi driver, or courier, or whatever and that is the vehicle I use."

Bailiffs and the Police
If the police attend your house due to either yourself or the bailiff phoning them, they are not supposed to get involved in any dispute over the debt. They are simply there to keep the peace and ensure that everyone has their rights respected.

Sounds great? Well in practice, most front-line police officers are woefully ignorant of the ins and outs of the various laws and rules surrounding bailiffs. This isn't their fault; these rules and laws are sometimes very arcane and difficult to follow. But this can mean that in practice that a smooth talking bailiff can convince the police to help the bailiff out. This is wrong and you can make a complaint about any police officer who gets caught up like this but it's still something you need to be aware of.

If you call the police, make sure you speak to them before the bailiff has a chance to, and make it clear to the police that YOU called them, and remind them that they are there only to ensure that there is no breach of the peace and that your rights are respected.

If the bailiff calls the police, then you should, again, make it clear to the police that you know your rights and their powers in this situation and that they are only there to ensure there is no breach of the peace.

Whatever you do, do not allow the police to let the bailiff into your property or let the police talk you into doing so.

never-in-doubt · 25 July 2009 at 7:44PM

Roberto - Excellent addition. Thanks.

I've amended post 1 to show the link to this post - excellent.

Never-in-Doubt wrote:

Below you'll find several letters that you can send the Bailiff / DCA's which should stop them in their tracks. Remember, Bailiffs / DCA's are highly regulated and cannot bully or intimidate you contrary to what they may tell you. If you have no money then do not pay anything, if they threaten you with a visit tell them they will be trespassing and you'll call the police. Whatever you do, do not give in to their threats.

For full details, have a read of RobertoMoir post here: Bailiffs & Their Powers

RobertoMoir · 26 July 2009 at 9:56AM

I_know_my_ABC_and_my_CMYK wrote: »

As usual NID brilliant, the more knowledge the better armed and the less fear.

Fear is the currency of a lot of bailiff and debt collector actions, like the DCA hinting at making people bankrupt because people are scared of that, while the DCA knows full well they're not likely to ever do it because it won't help them recover their debt. Anything we can do to make people aware of their rights is a good thing.

never-in-doubt · 3 August 2009 at 1:03AM

RobertoMoir wrote: »

Fear is the currency of a lot of bailiff and debt collector actions, like the DCA hinting at making people bankrupt because people are scared of that, while the DCA knows full well they're not likely to ever do it because it won't help them recover their debt. Anything we can do to make people aware of their rights is a good thing.

I am in the middle of arguing with Lowell about an incorrect link and they are now writing to me! I'll post a copy of my letter to them later to show the best way to get rid of them! :beer:

never-in-doubt · 3 August 2009 at 1:27AM

Below is my recent letter to Lowell regarding their threats about a debt to a Mrs N-i-D that has nothing to do with me! I wish I was married to a 20 something bird, lol, unfortunately it is just not the case!

This letter is very sarcastic but very serious in the same context. It is designed to let them know I am serious, but also that I do take the p!ss somewhat. At the end of the day it is in my interests to force them into hassling me so I can seek compo but really i'd just rather they went away and never came back!

When they respond, i'll scan and post their letter so you can see a DCA grovel for forgiveness (like their predecessors Wescot did)... :rotfl:

Dear Lowell,

Ref: Incorrect Link

I write with reference to recent communication, my last letter dated 28th July and a new threat from you also dated 28th July 2009. I am now getting sick-to-the-back-teeth of communicating with you and so you should consider this my final letter; any future communication will be via my solicitor whom will be instructed to seek compensation at the highest level for your continual harassment.

I telephoned your office on Friday 31st July and spoke to someone who confirmed that he was adding notes to the account, and I advised him that I would write in confirming my history which may make you realise why the link was created in the first place. Before I explain, I’d like to draw explicit attention to the letter dated 28th July 2009 regards to a Capital One account, again in the name of XXXXXX.

1. You state in this letter you have taken steps to confirm her residence, well obviously the steps you have taken require serious consideration because they couldn’t be more inaccurate if you tried. The fact you rely on information gathered from CRA’s speaks volumes - nobody believes anything they have to say!

2. You state that you have chosen to use a credit reference agency and through various checks it appears that she is likely at my address trying to avoid repayment. Great! Then please, feel free to take whatever action you feel is necessary because you will not get any joy at my address because I’ve never heard of the person so good luck.

3. You state that you intend to take further action against me – bring it on! For the avoidance of doubt, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep visit”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you. There is an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

4. You state that the outstanding balance will not go away and trying to ignore her responsibilities will make the matter worse. Please do not make me laugh. I do not owe you a penny but even if I did, I’d laugh at your letter because you have absolutely no right whatsoever to enforce anything so be my guest – good luck! Watch this space because trust me, as if by magic the debt will go away soon enough or I’ll be taking you to court, a prospect you really do not want to be faced with.

5. You state that unless I face up to this within the next 5 days you’ll set your ‘dogs’ on me. I warn you now, if Red or anyone else contacts me about this I will take swift, immediate action against them and you as instigator being I have already warned you several times before of your evident mistake.

Now I have got that off my chest, I’ll start by offering an explanation that may assist you – even though I have no legal right to help you, I do feel that it is in both our interests to sort this incorrect link once and for all.

I moved into a new build property, therefore there were no previous occupants. For some bizarre reason, a link was created between me and an unknown address on Experian & Equifax. As soon as I was aware of this error, I contacted both CRA’s demanding removal sending ample proof to assist them in their investigation. Experian dealt with the matter immediately and removed all trace of the linked address whereas Equifax simply refuse to cooperate. Things have come to a head and I am in the process of issuing legal enforcement papers on Equifax to substantiate their data by way of Civil Procedure Rule (CPR). Non compliance will immediately award judgement for removal in my favour.

I have never lived at the incorrect linked address nor do I know any of the occupants, it appears that someone there shares my name. This is no way proof that we are one in the same and the attached proof will confirm this to you.

I also attach previous communication between myself and Wescot, the previous DCA that was chasing this debt – please pay particular notice to their letter dated 24th April 2009 and their subsequent apology within this letter (confirming that they got it wrong). I guess that is why they passed the debt to you; realisation defeat comes at a heavy price.

I therefore expect an immediate apology for your continual harassment with your promise that my details will be removed from your systems and that no link will ever reappear as a result of you either selling this debt on or returning it to the original creditor(s). I attach with this letter various items that will prove beyond reasonable doubt that I am not the same person you seek and that I never lived at the purported address.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully,

RobertoMoir · 4 August 2009 at 8:53PM

wow. I'd say more, but that covers it well enough.

never-in-doubt · 4 August 2009 at 9:40PM

RobertoMoir wrote: »

wow. I'd say more, but that covers it well enough.

please elaborate - lol, can never say enough in a nice letter to Lowells mate :beer: :beer:

Innocent_Guy · 5 August 2009 at 12:10PM

NID - Another cracking thread mate, well done.

This comes in soooooo handy.

Would you believe that I am now getting pestered again about the incorrect link!
Lowells....... They have advised me that they will send me a letter of apology and stop harassing me however I will have to see.

Well done tho mate.

Dealing with Bailiffs Harassment

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