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Debate House Prices


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Is waiting to buy the right idea?

I'm not sure about my thinking on this one, so would appreciate some views from others. I also appreciate I make some big assumptions.

At present:
  • House prices are too high.
  • Borrowing is difficult and costly, unless you have a substantial deposit.
  • Those with adverse credit histories are deemed more of a risk.
Let's say house prices will fall.

Developers will continue to develop new build properties.

Shared ownership and key worker schemes will continue to exist.

Banks will eventually free up the ability to lend at decent rates again, to low risk customers.

First time buyers will be keen to continue saving whilst renting, despite a possible falling interest rate on their savings (but they will still be making some extra money on their savings).

Sellers will want to avoid negative equity where possible, and so will be reluctant to sell at a loss (i.e. those who have purchased a house in the last few years will not want to sell unless absolutely necessary, because the chances are they will lose money in a falling market.). These sellers are likely to include first time sellers, who bought a property as a FTB, only to see its value drop. They are finding it hard enough as it is to make ends meet, so they will not want to sell at a loss.

Sellers who purchased their property many years ago still stand to make a profit - albeit relative, given the prices of all properties. They may be willing to sacrifice a smaller profit for the next step up the property ladder.

First time buyers find it difficult to get onto the property ladder, as sellers are relucant to sell at a loss. The only properties FTB's could purchase would be through new builds, which are typically overpriced, reposessions and shared ownership schemes. Suddenly demand outstrips supply, because the whole market is not available to the buyer, and with that comes a gradual rise in house prices again, as sellers realise they can price a bit higher and accept offers nearer to their asking prices. Then we're back to where we were with inflated house prices (perhaps not as high as today, but along a similar vein).

Yes, some sellers may still sell and accept the loss for a move up the property ladder, but the way things are going, all I can see is the property market stagnating, unless all sellers resign themselves to the fate that prices have dropped i.e. it effects the whole chain, and therefore whilst a seller may not get as much money as they wanted for their property, that money can then go further when buying the next property up.

As I said, I appreciate I make some big assumptions, some of which may not be true or cannot be predicted. I think there is a wider picture to also consider, such as the financial markets, which have caused our current situation of falling interest rates but higher mortgage rates.

Feel free to pick apart my thoughts - I'm just interested to see what people think.

Thanks.

Comments

  • carolt
    carolt Posts: 8,531 Forumite
    Many excellent posts on the identical subject already posted, so I'll dig them out if I have time. In the meantime, browse the other threads; your question is obviously one that is frequently debated on the House Price board. ;)

    Here's one I found that succinctly explains why it's irrelevant what the majority of non-sellers want for their property:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=10193331&postcount=2461
  • phil_b_2
    phil_b_2 Posts: 995 Forumite
    I've come round to believe that you are right to wait before buying, and you are also right to buy now. No wrong can be done unless you buy and stretch yourself to breaking point (crap mortgage deal).

    Prices wont be going up anymore in the short term, so you wont be missing any boats. If you buy now and they drop a bit in the short term, they will (as you point out in your post) go back up again.

    You could wait a little while to get a property for slightly less perhaps. But there is no gaurentee the hoses in your area will go down, and the saving is maybe negligible Vs renting for longer.
  • EdInvestor
    EdInvestor Posts: 15,749 Forumite
    You need to factor in the likelihood that the credit crunch is eased (talks underway as we speak) and that borrowing becomes easier (though not as lax as before). This would likely stop the fall in prices, though also prevent any major rises for a while - the market would tick over for a period, as in 2004-05, with fewer deals, but not the current state of almost total freeze.

    How would that affect your calculations?
    Trying to keep it simple...;)
  • sparklycat
    sparklycat Posts: 41 Forumite
    We have just this moment put an offer in on a house :eek: . Been umming and ahhing for about 3 weeks, lost out on one already due to indecisivness! We have offered £30,000 below asking price as EA phoned to say buyer was open to offers! WE are in the driving seat as we have cash in bank. Feeling bit anxious though, still not sure whether we have done right thing.:confused:

    Properties here are still moving , less on market, but alot of new instructions seem to be without chains and empty. (BTL getting spooked?) I think in some ways now is a good time to buy as long as you can afford it and not stretching yourself too far. Some houses here are going after a couple of weeks being on market, so not all that bad.

    Wait to see what happens on our offer. If not accepted then we will continue to look! I'm starting to get a bit paranoid reading all these posts about house prices crashing etc, maybe that is the plan in the great scheme of things????????......;) eek am i saying is it a conspiracy? i need to get out more!:D
    I like to take one day at a time....but quite often several days attack me at once...:eek:
  • Mac_Sami
    Mac_Sami Posts: 277 Forumite
    EdInvestor wrote: »
    You need to factor in the likelihood that the credit crunch is eased (talks underway as we speak) and that borrowing becomes easier (though not as lax as before). This would likely stop the fall in prices, though also prevent any major rises for a while - the market would tick over for a period, as in 2004-05, with fewer deals, but not the current state of almost total freeze.

    How would that affect your calculations?

    Two of my points would still apply, though - house prices are too high (even though they will have been corrected slightly), and those with adverse credit will (hopefully) not be able to get a high mortgage. In theory, those with good credit and money should be able to take advantage of a buyer's market, but with there being the possibility in your scenario of house prices remaining around the same amount, there may be little reason to buy still.

    As you say, the market will tick over, with prices not really moving and there being a handful of buyers. Bear in mind that prices would still be too high for most buyers, who may grow more confident of the market (and possibly start to worry that house prices won't come down), and therefore potentially rush on the shared ownership / repossession / bargain properties.

    Another point I forgot to make was that FTB's are more choosy than in the past. My parents, and indeed most of that generation bought a property based on its price, and not its location. Whilst location is banged on about as being very important for your property's price and interest when it comes to selling, perhaps we are in a time now where FTB's need to accept that they cannot get the dream property instantly (unless of course prices go down).
  • Mac_Sami
    Mac_Sami Posts: 277 Forumite
    sparklycat wrote: »
    We have just this moment put an offer in on a house :eek: . Been umming and ahhing for about 3 weeks, lost out on one already due to indecisivness! We have offered £30,000 below asking price as EA phoned to say buyer was open to offers! WE are in the driving seat as we have cash in bank. Feeling bit anxious though, still not sure whether we have done right thing.:confused:

    Properties here are still moving , less on market, but alot of new instructions seem to be without chains and empty. (BTL getting spooked?) I think in some ways now is a good time to buy as long as you can afford it and not stretching yourself too far. Some houses here are going after a couple of weeks being on market, so not all that bad.

    Wait to see what happens on our offer. If not accepted then we will continue to look! I'm starting to get a bit paranoid reading all these posts about house prices crashing etc, maybe that is the plan in the great scheme of things????????......;) eek am i saying is it a conspiracy? i need to get out more!:D

    My scenario makes several big assumptions, so please don't think it is the gospel about what will happen to house prices and the availability of credit.

    At the moment I think the property market is still moving, although we are seeing more and more stories and figures indicating that sellers are struggling to sell their properties (although there will always be some who can sell). My scenario points out a potential issue in that in the future, should house prices continue to go down, the market may stagnate, with few properties being bought and sold, and buyers not sure when to dive in to make their first property purchase.
  • THSHARIF
    THSHARIF Posts: 38 Forumite
    i am going to go ahead with the purchase of a house, I have waited for over two years for a decent house to come up on the market at a realistic price.
    129000, has been accepted, I am fed up of saving , and renting.
    I am not going to sell this house for at least 5 years.
    i am putting a deposit of 25% on his house.
    if prices were to drop pepole will not sell, but wait for them to go up agian. especially in high demand areas , people will not sell but rent out thier property until this crisis is over.
    by this time the number of people waiting will increase, thus meaning sellers bieng able to get what they ask for.

    buying know rather than waiting for things to happen is based on assumptions from the past.

    landlords who have bought houses for buy to let , will not sell but benefit further from this crisis.

    right or wrong ?
  • dannyboycey
    dannyboycey Posts: 1,060 Forumite
    THSHARIF wrote: »
    if prices were to drop pepole will not sell, but wait for them to go up agian. especially in high demand areas , people will not sell but rent out thier property until this crisis is over.
    by this time the number of people waiting will increase, thus meaning sellers bieng able to get what they ask for.

    Strange hypothesis. What about the people that come to the end of their fixed rate period and cannot afford the lenders SVR and cannot get another deal because of the lack of products and their lack of equity. In laymans terms, they are f***ed. They don't have the option of sitting tight and riding the crisis out. They will either be reposessed or forced to sell at a knockdown price. This is happening now to thousands of people who took out 100% or higher mortgages from the likes of Northern Rock.

    I don't believe that Gordon's plan to bail out the banks will help either. It's nothing but a face-saving exercise that may lessen the speed of the crash, perhaps even delay it for a while - but he can't prevent it. Shifting risk away from banks towards taxpayers is not a clever move, he is gambling with the future prosperity of the country, and if it doesn't work, the UK will suffer economic meltdown. Well done Gordon!
  • Mac_Sami
    Mac_Sami Posts: 277 Forumite
    I was thinking about this last night.

    If what I assume happens re: FTB's sitting tight and renting instead of buying, due to house prices falling, then those who are coming to the end of their mortgages and may struggle to make ends meet could always look down the route of renting out their house, or rather a room to a lodger.

    A separate thought to consider is what will happen to the rental market, with so many people renting? Those who can afford property ownership may end up with a surplus of tenants for their property, resulting in price increases. However, BTL'ers may just be glad to rent at any price that covers their back, so perhaps this scenario is unlikely.

    Granted, rentals to cover the mortgage would only happen in a small number of cases (I doubt many families would want to share their homes, for example), and I have no doubt that those struggling to secure finance will end up being repossessed, or go down the "sell your home and rent it back" route.

    It would be interesting to see the figures for the number of repossessions in the coming months.
  • THSHARIF
    THSHARIF Posts: 38 Forumite
    people with 100% mortgages, were always at risk thats why i have been renting for the last 3 years and saved a deposit of 25% with my partner.
    we knew the house prices were rising, we could have avoided renting and bought something on an intrest only basis it would have been the same as renting in terms of paying dead money.

    with a 100% mortgage , the mortgage payments would have been equivalent of renting as the amount owed from the capital sum would not have reduced by much in the past 3 years. people were buying houses to benfit from not paying dead money and rely on the house prce gain. to be the gain from the hopusing boom as thier deposit.
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