Apprentice son being made redundant

batg

My son, age 20 is approx 4/5 months into an apprenticeship.

He has had no contact what so ever with the training company because of a change of person there. He has never had day release/training etc and telling him to find out the contact details for training/college is like talking to a brick wall. He wouldn't even ask them when their holiday year ran from ( he's quite shy and doesn't like to rock the boat)

Comes in on Thursday to say he's been told he's being laid off as they can't afford him because a guy who bought a load of stuff off his employer has gone bust owing him money. He was told he had 6 days holiday accrued so to not to come in on Friday or next week.
He gets about £140 a week for 8.30-5 Mon to Friday

He seems to think the employer will be giving him £1400 although I have no idea how he (son) knows/has arrived at the figure?

Is it true apprentices can't be made redundant?

Diamandis

If they've entered in to a contract to train this person then they could be in breach of contract for not doing so. The money argument here wouldn't hold up. I'd really recommend seeking some legal advice.

discat11

Anyone can be made redundant, those who were last in with the least experience probably are the first out in most companies, although there is a body of legal opinion that claims that making an apprentice redundant is a breach of contract (simplybusiness.co.uk).

This states quite specifically an employer can't use the reason of 'affordability' in redundancy.

I think he needs to contact ACAS pronto.

xapprenticex

Its also worth considering, if he does go that route, will he be able to manage staying at the company when he is somewhat unwanted?

Some can, some cant.

batg

the guy says he has to let him go because he has taken a big hit on an unpaying client.

Son says had call from him yesterday saying guy said he hadn't been paying NMW ( he had at apprenticeship rate) since he started so owes him about £1500,and son is saying he thinks he might have changed the contract to have him as an employee instead of apprenticeship.

He is so naive it's unreal.
I think it's a sweetner to get rid of him and keep him quiet

Acas closed until Monday

Savvy_Sue

And assuming he didn't join a union this time, please encourage him to do so next time ...

batg

Don't suppose the fact that the company has the owner, his wife who does admin and one other worker makes a difference?

sangie595

I suspect that this may be complicated. Assuming this really is an apprenticeship, he has some responsibilities too, and if he's never attended college or had any contact with his training mentor/ supervisor, then technically he may be considered in breach of his contract too. Being shy isn't an explanation for that that would be accepted - he's out in the real world and needs to take responsibility. It isn't a one way street where the employer does everything for you. And I don't say that to be harsh, but simply as a statement of fact - mum and/or dad can't do everything!

And it isn't true that an apprentice can't be made redundant - it's hard, yes, but clearly employers do hit financial barriers or go bust etc., and the law cannot require them to risk their business simply to keep a person in training whilst skilled and experienced staff that actually make the business work go first! That would be patently ridiculous!

Given the circumstances, I'd be tempted to agree with xapprenticex. It's all very well saying he might have rights to not be made redundant, but he's unable to stand up for those rights himself even if they apply; and all that leaves him doing is stuck in an employment where he is disliked because his employer can't afford him, and he may even be forcing someone else out of work which colleagues and employer will be unhappy about.

I'd also just comment too- the reason you have been given ( or that he had been given) may not be true. It may be a gentle let down for someone who isn't working out? Which happens, and may be neither a reflection on your son or the employer.

I'd suggest that he may be better off, with so little under his belt, cutting his losses, making sure he gets properly paid off, and looking for another apprenticeship that is a better fit. If he's so shy, he probably needs a more structured working environment (more common with larger employers) where they will push him when he doesn't push himself to do things like sort out training etc.

And, with the greatest of respect, stop parenting him! I know it's hard. But he could have signed up and posted. You could have stood over him and made him! Then he'd have typed what he actually understands instead of us having to manage on what you think he thinks was said! He's going to have to survive in the world of work, and every bit of practice in sorting out his own issues is valuable. As is learning that stuff goes wrong so he should join a union - it's their job to help him stand up for himself, and they'll do it better than you

________
Edit - just seen the new information. On this basis, take the money, cut his losses and get a better training environment in a bigger employer. And then join a union!

Andy_L

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

And assuming he didn't join a union this time, please encourage him to do so next time ...

Traditionally apprentices couldn't join the Union/ engage in industrial action
I don't know if that's still true

sangie595

batg wrote: »

Don't suppose the fact that the company has the owner, his wife who does admin and one other worker makes a difference?

Yes, a big one - even if he's an apprentice, which it sounds like he isn't, the argument that he's the only "disposable" cost without jeopardizing the company is stronger! If paying him would risk the company then an apprentice contract could be terminated.

sangie595

Andy_L wrote: »

Traditionally apprentices couldn't join the Union/ engage in industrial action
I don't know if that's still true

According to what tradition????

I have been in a union since 1976, and I have never known any union to refuse membership to apprentices!