TV Licence article Discussion

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  • cw18
    cw18 Posts: 8,615
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    Lewie wrote: »
    But you don't need a licence if you watch it 'live' online?
    What a shambles.
    if you watch it via ANY method (computer, tablet, phone etc) as it's being shown on TV you need a licence.
    Cheryl
  • expat_mike
    expat_mike Posts: 50 Forumite
    A few points of note.

    1/ I don't believe it has been established in the courts just how long the delay needs to be to define what is live and what is catch up. Old fashioned analogue broadcasting was effectively instant if you ignore the time taken to receive a broadcast as the signal traveled at the speed of light (186,000,000 miles per sec). However, with digital broadcasting the inherent delays are hundreds or thousands times slower in reaching your screen so it could be argued that this is not live TV. All broadcasts from FTA and Sky dishes require significant digital processing and delivery through broadcasting systems to your TV and if delivered through the internet that could incur a significant delay of 1 or more seconds. A legal point could be, is this any more live TV than catch up TV when it comes from the same TV internet server and is not 'live' ?

    2/ I believe TV licensing may visit when you declare you do not watch live TV you but as I understand it they have no right to question you or even enter your home without a court order despite what they might claim. TV licensing claim that only 2% are of people only watch catch up TV but as Mandy Rice-Davis famously said "They would say that wouldn't they". Their charter is to collect money pure and simple.

    3/ Point 6 claiming that just owning a TV required a licence was a myth propagated by the BBC to avoid losing the TV tax and I'm glad to see that myth dispelled.

    4/ Detector vans and such - Unlike the days when we had bulky TV's that used very high voltages to create a picture, its unlikely if at all possible that modern low voltage TV's will emit enough radiation for that van to determine you are watching a live program. Put a modern TV is a test chamber and you will probably be able to detect the program being watched with spectrum analyzers as all other sources of interference will be absent. In a street its virtually impossible to isolate the emissions a flat screen TV puts out. If you want to be even more secure, use a video projector as that uses light to project the picture and the electronic signature is microscopic.

    These days, people 'caught' by the licensing authorities watching live TV are usually intimidated by them into admitting they watched a live program and not by any technical evidence being obtained. Despite all the hype about big brother, its not that clever or fool proof !

    :beer:
  • Lewie
    Lewie Posts: 344
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    edited 20 May 2015 at 12:13PM
    cw18 wrote: »
    if you watch it via ANY method (computer, tablet, phone etc) as it's being shown on TV you need a licence.

    Not according to this
    Watching TV on the internet
    You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel Islands.


    Or have I misread it?
    Does it mean anything you can see on tv in the uk from anywhere in the world?

    Perhaps so.
  • Cornucopia wrote: »
    It's also probably an underestimate, because it is based on people declaring to TVL that they don't need a licence, which I for one have never done.

    Me neither.
  • cw18
    cw18 Posts: 8,615
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    Lewie wrote: »
    Or have I misread it?
    Does it mean anything you can see on tv in the uk from anywhere in the world?

    Perhaps so.

    From the TVL website
    Do I need a TV Licence to watch satellite programmes broadcast from outside the UK or Channel Islands? Yes you do. You need a TV Licence to watch or record live TV, no matter where it is broadcast or distributed from. This includes satellite or online streamed programmes from outside the UK or Channel Islands, such as sporting events and foregin shows.
    Live TV means any programme you watch or record at the same time as it’s being shown on TV or an online TV service.
    If you only ever watch on demand programmes, you don’t need a TV Licence. On demand includes catch-up TV, streaming or downloading programmes after they’ve been shown on live TV, or programmes available online before being shown on live TV.
    and

    One simple question makes it easy to know if you need a TV Licence:
    Am I watching or recording live TV on any device?
    Live TV means any programme you watch or record at the same time as it's being shown on TV or an online TV service.
    An online TV service is a service that mainly aims to provide TV programmes over the internet, e.g. on a website or through an app or Smart TV.
    Cheryl
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,146
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    edited 20 May 2015 at 12:30PM
    The definition ultimately comes down to the meaning of the term "members of the public", in S.9(2) of The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/pdfs/uksi_20040692_en.pdf

    I would have thought that that (a) means, and (b) was intended to mean: restricted to the UK. The definition would be overkill if it was intended to mean all TV programmes, anywhere (in the known Universe).

    Let's not go down the TVL rabbit-hole of confusion on this. Obfuscation is their mantra, after all, and having two conflicting definitions on their website is just their style.

    I would have thought it was quite clear, and if it isn't, TVL has spoken. Live TV includes foreign satellite channels that are receivable in the UK, but not live streaming over the internet from overseas.
  • expat_mike wrote: »
    as the signal traveled at the speed of light (186,000,000 miles per sec).

    1,000 times slower actually.

    186,000 miles per second.
  • Hi CW18, I totally agree with your point of a rebate it would be a much fairer way and possibly lower the amount of licence evaders in the long term. The Tv Licencing board should be ashamed of themselves as hearing loss is as much a disability as sight loss so therefore its discrimination.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,146
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    sharon40 wrote: »
    Hi CW18, I totally agree with your point of a rebate it would be a much fairer way and possibly lower the amount of licence evaders in the long term. The Tv Licencing board should be ashamed of themselves as hearing loss is as much a disability as sight loss so therefore its discrimination.

    Not that I would usually jump to their defence, but it is the Government that sets the various concessions on the Licence Fee, not the BBC.

    There is no "TV Licensing Board".

    On that basis, why not write to your MP and tell him/her how you feel?
  • Hi Cornucopia, I may well do thank you :-)
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