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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 18th Mar 08, 11:39 AM
    • 1,874Posts
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    MSE Archna
    TV Licence article Discussion
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 08, 11:39 AM
    TV Licence article Discussion 18th Mar 08 at 11:39 AM


    This thread is specifically to discuss the the


    To discuss or ask a question about this article: click reply
    Last edited by MSE Researcher; 14-06-2010 at 4:08 PM.
    Report inappropriate posts: forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com




Page 132
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 2nd Feb 18, 6:44 PM
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    Cornucopia
    Am I allowed to watch BBC content on Youtube? Either on any of the BBC Youtube channels or on any other Youtube channels?
    Originally posted by waterman3
    Yes - you can watch any video on demand content on Youtube without a Licence. (Live content is more complicated).

    Am I allowed to go to a friend's house, download a programme on the bbc iplayer app on my phone and watch it back at my house?
    Yes. The app will ask whether you have a Licence - just answer yes, on behalf of your friend.

    Am I allowed to go to a friend's house go into the iplayer app on my phone and cast it to their tv on their chromecast?
    Yes.

    Am I allowed to watch live streams on Youtube? Either American TV or any other live content?
    Any live streams of UK channels definitely require a TV Licence to view via Youtube (or any other platform). Live streams that are not related to a TV channel are free to view without a Licence.

    TVL's position on live streams of foreign TV channels is confused and unclear. Having read the legislation, my view is that a Licence is not needed.

    I have a Now TV box. I assume the mere fact that it has an iplayer app (even though I won't use it) doesn't mean i need a licence.
    Correct. You can (and should ideally) delete the iPlayer app from a Now TV box. You should never use the live players on the box for any channel.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • waterman3
    • By waterman3 2nd Feb 18, 7:40 PM
    • 458 Posts
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    waterman3
    Yes - you can watch any video on demand content on Youtube without a Licence. (Live content is more complicated).


    Yes. The app will ask whether you have a Licence - just answer yes, on behalf of your friend.


    Yes.


    Any live streams of UK channels definitely require a TV Licence to view via Youtube (or any other platform). Live streams that are not related to a TV channel are free to view without a Licence.

    TVL's position on live streams of foreign TV channels is confused and unclear. Having read the legislation, my view is that a Licence is not needed.


    Correct. You can (and should ideally) delete the iPlayer app from a Now TV box. You should never use the live players on the box for any channel.
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    Thanks for your help. I thought maybe I wouldn't be able to watch BBC content on Youtube but that's good that I can. I like watching the Andrew Marr Show and there's always clips of that on Youtube soon after broadcast that are uploaded by folk, so I wouldn't really be missing out.

    I meant to ask, I assume I couldn't download an iplayer programme on my phone at home and then watch it outwith my home?
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 2nd Feb 18, 7:45 PM
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    Cornucopia
    I thought maybe I wouldn't be able to watch BBC content on Youtube but that's good that I can.
    Originally posted by waterman3
    The rules that were introduced in 2016 revolve around video-on-demand services that are owned and operated by the BBC. Since that doesn't include Youtube, it doesn't require a Licence.

    I meant to ask, I assume I couldn't download an iplayer programme on my phone at home and then watch it outwith my home?
    No, that's not allowed.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 02-02-2018 at 7:48 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • GlennTheBaker
    • By GlennTheBaker 5th Feb 18, 8:49 AM
    • 2,783 Posts
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    GlennTheBaker
    We have not watched any live TV for months so have taken the decision to be LLF and I have just cancelled my direct debit to TV Licensing. We never use BBC iPlayer and only watch shows on demand via Amazon Prime or Now TV through a games console as well as DVDs and Blu-rays. I have deleted the iPlayer app from the console, removed the connection from the aerial to the TV and detuned the TV channels. I have also blocked iPlayer on my router. I am not going to bother informing TVL as, from what I understand, they end up hassling you anyway but can anyone tell me if I have missed anything?

    Thanks.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 5th Feb 18, 8:58 AM
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    Cornucopia
    That sounds very comprehensive.

    The only other thing is to ensure that every adult member of the household understands that there is no TV Licence, understands that they should not speak with anyone from TV Licensing (since that is your expressed preference), and understand that they have the legal right to decline entry to the premises to TV Licensing and to decline to be interviewed under caution.

    Watch out for underhand tactics by TV Licensing like confusing interview under caution with a Licence application, and the infamous "sign here to say I called" subterfuge that to their eternal shame gets converted into a confession that is then taken through the prosecution process.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 05-02-2018 at 5:59 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 5th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
    • 1,509 Posts
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    FreeBear
    Watch out for underhand tactics by TV Licensing
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    Or the open ended questions - I got asked "What was the last programme you watched on TV ?".... If I had been honest and mentioned stuff I'd watched at a friend's house, I'd probably be looking at an interview under caution by now. Instead, all he got was "no comment", "none of your business", and "no" to the questions.

    Don't tell them your name, refuse to answer any questions, and certainly do not let them in to the house should they ever call.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 5th Feb 18, 6:03 PM
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    Cornucopia
    Or the open ended questions - I got asked "What was the last programme you watched on TV ?".... If I had been honest and mentioned stuff I'd watched at a friend's house, I'd probably be looking at an interview under caution by now. Instead, all he got was "no comment", "none of your business", and "no" to the questions.
    Originally posted by FreeBear
    Indeed, several of the questions on their interview form are not specific enough to accurately distinguish offending behaviour from innocuous. The form itself has legal issues, too, it being unclear what it legally is (and its content being seemingly incompatible with any of the options). The best guess is that it is a hybrid of Record of Interview, and Interviewer's Notes - however it is not clear that that is a valid possibility within the law (because of the confusion between comments entered by the Interviewer and responses from the Interviewee). There are also PACE issues with the entire process.

    All of which I personally think are good reasons not to speak with them.

    Don't tell them your name, refuse to answer any questions, and certainly do not let them in to the house should they ever call.
    I have previously summarised these as the 6 "S"s...

    - Shut the door,
    - Say nothing,
    - Sign nothing,
    - right to Silence,
    - right to Solicitor,
    - tell them to Sling their hook
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 05-02-2018 at 6:11 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • JimmyTheWig
    • By JimmyTheWig 6th Feb 18, 5:21 PM
    • 11,599 Posts
    • 11,216 Thanks
    JimmyTheWig
    We have not watched any live TV for months so have taken the decision to be LLF and I have just cancelled my direct debit to TV Licensing.
    ...
    I am not going to bother informing TVL as, from what I understand, they end up hassling you anyway but can anyone tell me if I have missed anything?
    Originally posted by GlennTheBaker
    Yes, you've missed out on a potential refund by not telling them.
    Remember that your direct debit pays for your licence part in advance and part in arrears.
    Which means there is a chance that they now owe you money.
    • Northway79
    • By Northway79 16th Feb 18, 12:59 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Northway79
    I have been paying more on my TV licence over the past year and about September 2017 I had £22.50 to pay

    Due to ill health problems I haven't made another payment because I was well ahead with my payments I allowed it to run down

    About 2 weeks ago I received a debt collection letter for £20 as I hadn't paid my TV licence since September 2017

    I duly paid the £20 which left £2.50 to pay

    All this for a TV Licence which starts next year because I am so far ahead with my payments

    With the worry of a debt collection for £20 and having to contact phone numbers to avoid further charges my health worsened during this time
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 16th Feb 18, 1:54 PM
    • 9,946 Posts
    • 9,827 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    I have been paying more on my TV licence over the past year and about September 2017 I had £22.50 to pay

    Due to ill health problems I haven't made another payment because I was well ahead with my payments I allowed it to run down

    About 2 weeks ago I received a debt collection letter for £20 as I hadn't paid my TV licence since September 2017

    I duly paid the £20 which left £2.50 to pay

    All this for a TV Licence which starts next year because I am so far ahead with my payments

    With the worry of a debt collection for £20 and having to contact phone numbers to avoid further charges my health worsened during this time
    Originally posted by Northway79
    Sorry to hear that your health has deteriorated over TV Licensing stupidity.

    To echo that warning, though, this is not the first time I have heard of a TV Licensing pre-payment account where payments are missing, but the overall account is not in arrears being handed-off to a Debt Collector.

    Debt is not an area I know much about, so I don't know if this approach is legal or not. (It certainly doesn't sound right).
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 16-02-2018 at 11:23 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 3rd Mar 18, 2:29 PM
    • 4,618 Posts
    • 11,903 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Swiss voters ponder axing TV licence
    Slightly surprised the BBC are drawing attention to this

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43229284
    Voters in Switzerland will go to the polls on Sunday to decide whether to abolish the mandatory licence fee for public broadcasting.
    But then as they currently pay £348 for their licence I guess the BBC would say it demonstrates how good value for money the UK version is, especially when you read such gems as:-
    Other opponents of the licence fee argue that the SBC - whose structure was originally modelled on that of the BBC - has become bloated and inefficient.
    You see, the BBC isn't bloated and inefficient, is it?
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • iancarbarns
    • By iancarbarns 21st Mar 18, 7:37 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    iancarbarns
    Correct line of thinking, but wrong conclusion
    The answers are clearly stated in Communications Act 2003 (see Section 4) and/or Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 (see, section 9), which define that:
    * a licence is required to INSTALL OR USE. So having a TV connected to an aerial or satellite dish requires a licence (because INSTALLED) even if you never watch anything. Intending to install a TV or even knowing that someone else intends to install it is an offence. There is a special exemption for TV dealerships.
    * there is still an exemption for devices powered by internal batteries

    Section 4, 363:
    Licence required for use of TV receiver
    (1)A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.
    (2)A person who installs or uses a television receiver in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.
    (3)A person with a television receiver in his possession or under his control who—
    (a)intends to install or use it in contravention of subsection (1), or
    (b)knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing, that another person intends to install or use it in contravention of that subsection,is guilty of an offence.
    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
    (5)Subsection (1) is not contravened by anything done in the course of the business of a dealer in television receivers solely for one or more of the following purposes—
    (a)installing a television receiver on delivery;
    (b)demonstrating, testing or repairing a television receiver.
    (6)The Secretary of State may by regulations exempt from the requirement of a licence under subsection (1) the installation or use of television receivers—
    (a)of such descriptions,
    (b)by such persons,
    (c)in such circumstances, and
    (d)for such purposes,as may be provided for in the regulations.
    (7)Regulations under subsection (6) may make any exemption for which such regulations provide subject to compliance with such conditions as may be specified in the regulations.

    Meaning of “television receiver”
    9.—(1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), “television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.
    (2) In this regulation, any reference to receiving a television programme service includes a reference to receiving by any means any programme included in that service, where that programme is received at the same time (or virtually the same time) as it is received by members of the public by virtue of its being broadcast or distributed as part of that service.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 21st Mar 18, 8:56 AM
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    Cornucopia
    Correct line of thinking, but wrong conclusion
    by iancarbans
    Not sure who/what that is in response to. However, your assertion that: "So having a TV connected to an aerial or satellite dish requires a licence (because INSTALLED) even if you never watch anything", is wrong.

    The correct interpretation of the legislation is this:

    The text at the bottom of your post (from the TV Licensing Regulations) clearly identifies a TV Receiver as not just a "TV set", but a TV that has been installed or is used for the purpose of receiving TV.

    Therefore in the main legislation, the requirement for a licence is attached to that definition, and can be read in full as: a licence is required to install or use a TV for TV reception.

    Hence, if there is no TV reception, there is no requirement for a Licence.

    We know that's correct, because TVL ALWAYS talk in terms of a Licence being required for watching/recording TV and using iPlayer, and NEVER in terms of what would be the much broader/simpler enforcement task of tracking physical TV sets.

    I have a slight issue with that definition, in that it implies that the offence solely concerns use, whereas the truth is more that it mainly concerns use. However, I assume that they are sacrificing accuracy in the name of simplicity, which is their prerogative, to an extent. I don't think (in this case), their objective is to deceive.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 21-03-2018 at 9:12 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • cw18
    • By cw18 21st Mar 18, 9:25 AM
    • 7,950 Posts
    • 85,201 Thanks
    cw18
    TVL ALWAYS talk in terms of a Licence being required for watching/recording TV and using iPlayer, and NEVER in terms of what would be the much broader/simpler enforcement task of tracking physical TV sets.
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    The tracking being what they used to do. Whenever I've bought a TV there was always a form to complete to be sent to TVL with my address on it, which then brought in a letter asking if I now needed a licence. But I've been informed by several sources that this is no longer done. My last purchase was in July 2012, so it's changed since then. (Google turned up a page which says the requirement for a dealer to notify them was removed on 25th June 2013.)
    Cheryl
    Sell £1000 : £0.00 Crazy Clothes : £0.00
    Toiletries : 0 IN; 5 UU; 0 TA; 0 GA
    Groceries : Apr £109.36 / £100 Mar £99.55 / £100.Feb £85.02 / £80.Jan £112.15 / £130. Annual £406.08 / £1200

    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 21st Mar 18, 9:27 AM
    • 5,891 Posts
    • 2,693 Thanks
    LeeUK
    iancarbarns must be one of those pro-tv licence brainwashed bods that think you need a licence for just owning a TV set.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 21st Mar 18, 10:15 AM
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    Cornucopia
    (Google turned up a page which says the requirement for a dealer to notify them was removed on 25th June 2013.)
    Originally posted by cw18
    Yes, this was removed by Vince Cable during the Coalition Government. It was felt that the process was already ineffective and compromised due to false data being submitted (which wasn't an offence).

    Some retailers, I think, didn't like it, and the BBC had never sorted out the apparent contradiction between, say, Asda selling a TV that would never be used for TV reception, but having to notify TVL, and Sky, say, installing a satellite dish and box that would only be used for TV reception and not notifying TVL.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • paul0551
    • By paul0551 21st Mar 18, 10:18 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    paul0551
    Getting BBC iPlayer and ITV On Demand when Abroad
    Install a Virtual Private Network (VPN) software on your PC/tablet.
    I use Express VPN but there are others. It costs about £10/month
    This software "spoofs" the BBC systems to thinking that you are in the UK, irrespective of where you are in the world.
    • kazbaa13
    • By kazbaa13 22nd Mar 18, 12:01 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    kazbaa13
    Tv licence is sheer robbery
    I look forward to the day TV licencing collapses. No profit-making company would be permitted to behave in the disgraceful manner TVL do
    Originally posted by lamp
    I agree, overpaid, poor quality presenters and poor quality repeated programmes. They should be self sufficient or subscription based like all the other guys. I am throwing £150 down the drain every year and it angers me.
    • Michael L
    • By Michael L 24th Mar 18, 12:33 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Michael L
    I have always been a firm supporter of the Licence Fee and the BBC. £3 per week provides the best television in the World uninterrupted by offers of 'feminine hygiene' products or toilet cleaner. Likewise there are excellent radio programmes for every taste and brilliant content on the website. When we fly anywhere I download tv shows on my iPad.
    We watch commercial offerings only after they have been recorded so the adverts can be skipped over.
    So we are talking about less than the cost of a pint of beer a week for all this. What I struggle to understand is why Sky customers choose to pay a subscription AND suffer advertising.
    • cw18
    • By cw18 24th Mar 18, 6:51 AM
    • 7,950 Posts
    • 85,201 Thanks
    cw18
    I have always been a firm supporter of the Licence Fee and the BBC. £3 per week provides the best television in the World uninterrupted by offers of 'feminine hygiene' products or toilet cleaner.
    Originally posted by Michael L
    I agree it means no adverts on the BBC channels, and would be happy if you only needed a licence in order to watch said BBC channels. But I don't agree that the BBC provides the best TV in the world, and got fed up of paying £3/week to be allowed to watch the other channels. So the simple solution for me was to cancel my licence, disconnect my aerial (only had Freeview anyway), and spend that £3/week on second hand DVDs that I can watch in an order and at a time to suit me - rather than the 'out of series order' and 'too early/late in the day times' that so many of the shows I did watch on the other channels were shown.

    What I struggle to understand is why Sky customers choose to pay a subscription AND suffer advertising.
    I guess because the subscription would be higher without the adverts. But my fella records most of the shows he watches on Sky, so simply skips the adverts in those anyway, the same way you do with the commercial offerings.....
    Cheryl
    Sell £1000 : £0.00 Crazy Clothes : £0.00
    Toiletries : 0 IN; 5 UU; 0 TA; 0 GA
    Groceries : Apr £109.36 / £100 Mar £99.55 / £100.Feb £85.02 / £80.Jan £112.15 / £130. Annual £406.08 / £1200

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