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  • FIRST POST
    • Jimtheslim
    • By Jimtheslim 14th Jan 20, 8:20 PM
    • 22Posts
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    Jimtheslim
    Postman signing for my signed for parcel
    • #1
    • 14th Jan 20, 8:20 PM
    Postman signing for my signed for parcel 14th Jan 20 at 8:20 PM
    Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I can't seem to find anything online relating to my specific incident.

    I ordered a camera lens on ebay and paid for royal mail 1st class signed for delivery. At no time during the order did I say it could be left in a safe place and at no time was that option available. I came home today to find a card on my mat saying it was in my greenhouse which it was. I looked online at the tracking page and there was a signature in the box which I do not recognise and assume it is the postman/womans. Below it says it was signed for by my surname only. I can prove nobody was home.

    Previous threads seem to be content with accepting post deliverers are under pressure and that this might save the receiver a journey to the delivery office. I'm not so happy. Say the lens was stolen from the greenhouse. How would I have claimed seeing as royal mail were confirming it was received by someone with my surname? I am not talking about a letter going through my mailbox that the postman can confirm was safe which other threads digress on, this parcel was left in a place which is insecure.

    Furthermore the tracking page has now removed the image of the signature now I have made a complaint. Luckily I have taken screenshot before this happened should I need them.

    Has this kind of incident happened to anyone else? If so how was it resolved?
Page 2
    • Jimtheslim
    • By Jimtheslim 15th Jan 20, 2:53 PM
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    Jimtheslim
    [Whatever happens to the Postman concerned, the OP can expect to have to collect lots of undelivered post from the depot in future...]

    Fine, I drive past the depot every day. Would rather know its safe and the Royal mail had done what they should have to ensure its security
    • Jimtheslim
    • By Jimtheslim 15th Jan 20, 2:56 PM
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    Jimtheslim
    [Would you really?
    So if a customer disputed a signature on an item you would immediately sack the employee on the say of that person]

    I never said I worked with customers. I also never said I am in a position to sack anyone. My point is that if I signed something off under someone else's name in my field of work and it was brought to the attention of my supervisor and proven I had done it I could likely get sacked.
    • Jimtheslim
    • By Jimtheslim 15th Jan 20, 2:59 PM
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    Jimtheslim
    [What do you actually want as an outcome to this?]

    I would like to know if anyone else has had this particular experience and what the outcome was. Furthermore I can't find anything on RM website declaring exactly who can and cannot sign for an item. I assume if it cannot be the deliverer then this is a breach of their process?
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 15th Jan 20, 3:00 PM
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    Moneyineptitude
    Fine, I drive past the depot every day. Would rather know its safe and the Royal mail had done what they should have to ensure its security
    Originally posted by Jimtheslim
    Perhaps have all your mail redirected there then? Collect at your leisure and no postman's job put at risk
    • custardy
    • By custardy 15th Jan 20, 3:03 PM
    • 35,241 Posts
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    custardy
    [What do you actually want as an outcome to this?]

    I would like to know if anyone else has had this particular experience and what the outcome was. Furthermore I can't find anything on RM website declaring exactly who can and cannot sign for an item. I assume if it cannot be the deliverer then this is a breach of their process?
    Originally posted by Jimtheslim
    I have already told you it is against RM policy.
    Does it matter what others outcomes are? That doesnt answer the outcome you are looking for.
    Last edited by custardy; 15-01-2020 at 3:06 PM.
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 15th Jan 20, 3:09 PM
    • 13,188 Posts
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    POPPYOSCAR
    I do think you are making a mountain out of a molehill over of this.

    Personally I would be glad he had left it and I had not had to trek to the sorting office to pick it up or stay in for it to be re-delivered.

    I could understand if your parcel had been stolen but as it was not I would just let it go.

    I have a little groan to myself when something is sent to me signed for as it is a pain and I cannot see the point of it really.
    • fb1969
    • By fb1969 15th Jan 20, 3:09 PM
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    fb1969
    I am a postie.

    The "signed for" service will obtain a signature on delivery. Normally that will be a person at the address - for this service that will be whoever opens the door and is prepared to sign for it.

    Alternatively the postie may, at their discretion, attempt delivery to a neighbour (unless the recipient has opted out of this) in which case the neighbour would sign and receive the item. The PDA has an option for 'deliver to neighbour'and their details would be input.

    There are a few circumstances where a postie is allowed to sign for an item, but your case is not one of those circumstances. In summary, the postie has gone against Royal Mail procedure, if you complain it should be dealt with within the company and the outcome kept within the company - and not relayed to you.
    Last edited by fb1969; 15-01-2020 at 3:16 PM.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 15th Jan 20, 3:28 PM
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    Moneyineptitude
    In summary, the postie has gone against Royal Mail procedure, if you complain it should be dealt with within the company and the outcome kept within the company - and not relayed to you.
    Originally posted by fb1969
    Yes, although the standard "compo" is a book of stamps in such cases, the OP will never know what disciplinary measures (if any) were taken against the employee concerned.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 15th Jan 20, 4:18 PM
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    Pollycat
    [What do you actually want as an outcome to this?]

    I would like to know if anyone else has had this particular experience and what the outcome was. Furthermore I can't find anything on RM website declaring exactly who can and cannot sign for an item. I assume if it cannot be the deliverer then this is a breach of their process?
    Originally posted by Jimtheslim
    So how much compensation do you want?

    As already mentioned, you are not going to be advised of any action taken by RM against this postman.
    • Jimtheslim
    • By Jimtheslim 15th Jan 20, 6:01 PM
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    Jimtheslim
    I don't recall asking for compensation beyond wondering whether I could be compensated for the cost of the service which wasn't delivered.

    As for having all my mail redirected to to sorting office, why would I do that? I'd like my post delivered as normal and my signed for parcels not signed for parcels handled in the appropriate manner. Is that unreasonable? I simple said that picking up a parcel from the depot wasn't too much hassle.

    As for people saying it's fine as nothing negative happened, what happens if you then let this continue and something does go wrong? Presumably you'd say I wasn't entitled to complain as I'd let them do it before as it suited me. I'd certainly feel bad claiming against them if I had let them do this before by not raising the issue.

    Anyway, I hadn't posted this to stir up so much passion or get people sacked, just to see if anyone had a similar experience as I couldn't find anything of the same scenario.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 15th Jan 20, 6:17 PM
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    Pollycat
    I don't recall asking for compensation beyond wondering whether I could be compensated for the cost of the service which wasn't delivered.

    As for having all my mail redirected to to sorting office, why would I do that? I'd like my post delivered as normal and my signed for parcels not signed for parcels handled in the appropriate manner. Is that unreasonable? I simple said that picking up a parcel from the depot wasn't too much hassle.

    As for people saying it's fine as nothing negative happened, what happens if you then let this continue and something does go wrong? Presumably you'd say I wasn't entitled to complain as I'd let them do it before as it suited me. I'd certainly feel bad claiming against them if I had let them do this before by not raising the issue.

    Anyway, I hadn't posted this to stir up so much passion or get people sacked, just to see if anyone had a similar experience as I couldn't find anything of the same scenario.
    Originally posted by Jimtheslim
    You are into the realms of 'what ifs'and'might have beens' again.
    You've complained about this incident.
    The postman has probably been verbally warned or disciplined or whatever Royal Mail processes are.
    If nobody is in your house to take a parcel in, it will go back to the sorting office and you can collect it from there.
    Time to move on.
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 16th Jan 20, 6:38 AM
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    boo_star
    I do think you are making a mountain out of a molehill over of this.

    Personally I would be glad he had left it and I had not had to trek to the sorting office to pick it up or stay in for it to be re-delivered.

    I could understand if your parcel had been stolen but as it was not I would just let it go.

    I have a little groan to myself when something is sent to me signed for as it is a pain and I cannot see the point of it really.
    Originally posted by POPPYOSCAR
    Had this happen to me though.

    Postie "helpfully" signed for stuff even though I was in all day every day (working from home.)

    One day an SD parcel was left in the porch, signed for by said postie. Stolen within 5 minutes.

    At the end of the day they aren't doing their job if they do this and although the company reimbursed me they could have easily said "it was delivered, we have proof."
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 16th Jan 20, 8:06 AM
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    Pollycat
    Had this happen to me though.

    Postie "helpfully" signed for stuff even though I was in all day every day (working from home.)

    One day an SD parcel was left in the porch, signed for by said postie. Stolen within 5 minutes.

    At the end of the day they aren't doing their job if they do this and although the company reimbursed me they could have easily said "it was delivered, we have proof."
    Originally posted by boo_star
    I think there's a big difference between a postman signing for a parcel because they've knocked with no reply and signing for a parcel without trying to find out if someone is in.
    Or do you mean you ignored the knocking?
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 16th Jan 20, 9:53 AM
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    NBLondon
    Well not really. He paid to have the item delivered, along with extra insurance should a problem occur, which it didn't. The idea of a secure delivery is largely meaningless and is down to interpretation.
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    Yes, really. If the OP paid the seller for that specific delivery service including householder signature - he didn't get what he paid for and has an issue to raise with the seller. If he paid an agreed fee for an unspecified form of delivery then he got what he paid for.
    Would you really?
    So if a customer disputed a signature on an item you would immediately sack the employee on the say of that person
    by custardy
    I never said I worked with customers. I also never said I am in a position to sack anyone. My point is that if I signed something off under someone else's name in my field of work and it was brought to the attention of my supervisor and proven I had done it I could likely get sacked.
    Originally posted by Jimtheslim
    There must be plenty of work environments where forging a customer's signature is gross misconduct and hence a sackable offence once an investigation shows it is not the customer's signature and no other person could have signed. Banking for a start.
    I think there's a big difference between a postman signing for a parcel because they've knocked with no reply and signing for a parcel without trying to find out if someone is in.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Presumably both are against the RM procedures as custardy and fb1969 point out. And if it's done without the prior agreement of the addressee - I don't think it makes any difference as to the reason.
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 16th Jan 20, 11:00 AM
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    Pollycat
    Presumably both are against the RM procedures as custardy and fb1969 point out. And if it's done without the prior agreement of the addressee - I don't think it makes any difference as to the reason.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    I didn't say it made a difference.
    I was just trying to clarify what the poster I quoted meant - out of curiosity.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 16th Jan 20, 11:50 AM
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    NBLondon
    I didn't say it made a difference.
    I was just trying to clarify what the poster I quoted meant - out of curiosity.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Sorry Polly - I was misled by the words
    I think there's a big difference
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    but I see what you mean now,
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 16th Jan 20, 1:24 PM
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    Pollycat
    Sorry Polly - I was misled by the words but I see what you mean now,
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    Not necessary.
    I've had the same regular postie for a number of years and he's a friend of someone I used to socialise with.
    He has - on very rare occasions - signed for a SD parcel then posted it through the letter box when nobody has been in.
    We both know that he's done me a favour and saved me a special trip into town.
    I appreciate that this is against RM procedures.
    I'm pretty sure he wouldn't sign then leave a parcel outside.
    Last edited by Pollycat; 17-01-2020 at 8:17 AM.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 16th Jan 20, 2:50 PM
    • 6,536 Posts
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    Gavin83
    Yes, really. If the OP paid the seller for that specific delivery service including householder signature - he didn't get what he paid for and has an issue to raise with the seller. If he paid an agreed fee for an unspecified form of delivery then he got what he paid for.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    Fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this then.
    • fb1969
    • By fb1969 16th Jan 20, 3:58 PM
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    • 691 Thanks
    fb1969
    Speaking as a postie and a slightly pedantic one at that - the "Signed For" service is not intended as a method of 'secure delivery' that is being referred to.

    "Signed For" items travel through the system, and are treated pretty much in the same way, as normal post. It is scanned when/if posted at a Post Office and is only scanned again when delivery is attempted. If you want a secure service you should use "Special Delivery" as that is scanned at numerous points thoughout the journey.

    Any postie who signs for items thinking they are doing a favour for the recipient is taking a risk. The recipient is not the customer, that is the sender and the person who contracted Royal Mail to deliver the item by whatever means they paid RM to do.

    While being caught signing for a item may result in retraining and a telling off, signing for a Special Delivery in normal circumstances is viewed far more seriously by Royal Mail.


    Presumably both are against the RM procedures as custardy and fb1969 point out. And if it's done without the prior agreement of the addressee - I don't think it makes any difference as to the reason.
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    In some ways there are two different issues. If the postie is putting the name of the recipient and then signing, there is a potential for it to be viewed as fraud. If they are signing with their own name it is just a case of being against RM procedures. As I mentioned before, there are a few circumstances when a postie can sign for an item - but they are few and far between and there is policy in place that states what those circumstances are.
    Last edited by fb1969; 16-01-2020 at 4:03 PM.
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 17th Jan 20, 12:12 AM
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    boo_star
    I think there's a big difference between a postman signing for a parcel because they've knocked with no reply and signing for a parcel without trying to find out if someone is in.
    Or do you mean you ignored the knocking?
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    They didn't knock.
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