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  • FIRST POST
    • wistful
    • By wistful 13th Jan 20, 1:28 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 18Thanks
    wistful
    PCN "cancelled" by Creativecarparks but enforced by CE
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 20, 1:28 PM
    PCN "cancelled" by Creativecarparks but enforced by CE 13th Jan 20 at 1:28 PM
    Hi.
    In February 2019 I received a PCN from Civil Enforcement stating that my vehicle had exceeded the parking time allowed at a retail park in King's Heath, Birmingham. My wife went to the retailer, Topps Tiles, the day after we received the PCN to complain. One of the staff there said not to worry because she would contact the operator of the car park to request for the PCN to be cancelled. I emailed the member of staff the PCN number and received an email back saying the PCN had been cancelled with a screenshot of the message received re this on the staff member's phone attached to the email. The screenshot said

    clients.creativecarpark.co.uk says

    We will no longer contact the driver about this PCN.

    Please contact the driver and let them know the ticket has been cancelled.

    (The screenshot did not have any reference to my details or PCN attached.)

    Despite this I received a further request for payment from Civil Enforcement. I contacted the member of staff at Topp's Tiles who had attempted to help but she was unable to help further as the car park ownership had since changed hands and the link on her phone to creativecarpark no longer worked. I contacted creativecarpark who refused to engage with the matter, stating that they do not deal with PCN appeals and also stating that the PCN had not been cancelled and referring me to Civil Enforcement's appeal process. I appealed to Civil Enforcement re the PCN on the grounds that it had been cancelled but the appeal was unsuccessful. I appealed to POPLA on the grounds that no payment was due as the PCN had been cancelled. The appeal was turned down. The response to the appeal, received on 21/05/19, states that,

    "Whilst I appreciate the reasons for the appellant's appeal and the evidence of the texts provided which shows that Creativecarparks.co.uk stated that the ticket had been cancelled, I am satisfied that this PCN has not been cancelled as an appeal has been made to POPLA and a case file has been submitted by the operator. This suggests that the operator wishes to continue with this PCN. Ultimately, it is POPLA's role to assess the terms and conditions of the car park and to determine if the appellant did indeed comply with those terms. The signs within this site advise of a one hour maximum stay period. The appellant has remained on site for one hour and 23 minutes therefore, exceeding the maximum stay period. If the appellant was advised by Creative carparksthat this PCN was cancelled, this will be a dispute between him and Creative Carparks. This is a third party dispute which POPLA cannot become involved in. The operator who manages the car park is Civil Enforcement. I have received no evidence to suggest that Civil Enforcement agreed to cancel this PCN."

    I did not point out to POPLA that, to the best of my understanding, Creativecrparks and Civil Enforcement are two arms of the same organisation. I don't know if this would have affected their decision. I presumed they would have known this.

    I received a letter before action on 12th November 2019 which I did not respond to. I received a County Court Claim Form on 23rd December with an issue date of 23rd December which I have responded to by returning the acknowledgment of service and ticking the box, "I intend to defend all of this claim". THe amount claimed is now £194.96 + Court fee £25 + Legal representative's costs £50. Toatla amount £269.96. I have received a letter from Civil Enforcement dated 3rd January 2020 with their "Particulars of Claim." I have not yet submitted my defence to the court.

    I would be grateful for any advice as to how to proceed from this point.
Page 1
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 20, 1:35 PM
    • 8,009 Posts
    • 9,072 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 20, 1:35 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 20, 1:35 PM
    Find the NEWBIE sticky and read post # 2. Now that you have posted the issue date KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines for submitting your defence and some other useful information. Within the NEWBIE sticky post # 2 there are links to 17 pre-written defences. Read those and, if the claimant has added £60 spurious costs (not the £50 solicitor costs), also read threads by CEC16 and basher52.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 20, 2:58 PM
    • 19,593 Posts
    • 24,988 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 20, 2:58 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 20, 2:58 PM
    I received a County Court Claim Form on 23rd December with an issue date of 23rd December which I have responded to by returning the acknowledgment of service and ticking the box, "I intend to defend all of this claim".
    Originally posted by wistful
    Sorry, I gave incorrect information re the Issue Date. I received the Claim Form on 23rd December but the Issue Date was 20th December.
    Originally posted by wistful
    With a Claim Issue Date of 23rd December 20th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 27th January 2020 Wednesday 22nd January 2020 to file your Defence.

    That's less than two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.

    There is more to do after having filed your Defence...
    1. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire. Nothing of interest there. Just file it.
    2. Wait for your own Directions Questionnaire from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then complete it as described by bargepole in his 'what happens when' post.
    3. The completed DQ should be returned by email to the CCBC to the same address and in the same way as your Defence was filed earlier.
    4. Send a copy of your completed DQ to the Claimant - to their address on your Claim Form.
    Last edited by KeithP; 13-01-2020 at 4:10 PM.
    .
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 13th Jan 20, 3:06 PM
    • 13,326 Posts
    • 19,163 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:06 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:06 PM
    Have you not told CEL what creativecarpark said to which you have proof.

    Where do CEL fit into this as they did not issue the ticket ???
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 20, 3:07 PM
    • 80,692 Posts
    • 95,221 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:07 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:07 PM
    LOL, this would be funny if it were not so serious as a court claim.

    Send a copy of what's happened to Steve Clark and Gemma Dorans at the BPA:
    I emailed the member of staff the PCN number and received an email back saying the PCN had been cancelled with a screenshot of the message received re this on the staff member's phone attached to the email. The screenshot said

    clients.creativecarpark.co.uk says

    We will no longer contact the driver about this PCN.

    Please contact the driver and let them know the ticket has been cancelled.
    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    and

    gemma.d@britishparking.co.uk

    ...and ask them to ask CEL what on earth has gone wrong in this case where clearly the PCN was cancelled by CEL/Creative, and you proved it but they are denying it. If you have the date/time of the email tell them that detail & attach your copy.

    Do that now.

    Then if you've done the AOS, crack on with drafting a defence after that.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • wistful
    • By wistful 13th Jan 20, 3:12 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    wistful
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:12 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:12 PM
    Thanks very much for the replies and useful information. Sorry, I gave incorrect information re the Issue Date. I received the Claim Form on 23rd December but the Issue Date was 20th December. Please can you advise when the deadline is to submit my defence. Also when I have produced a defence can I post it here, on this thread, for advice and comments?
    • wistful
    • By wistful 13th Jan 20, 3:15 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    wistful
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:15 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 20, 3:15 PM
    Thanks so much Coupon-mad. Very encouraging advice. I will do that straight away.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 20, 4:11 PM
    • 19,593 Posts
    • 24,988 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 20, 4:11 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 20, 4:11 PM
    Sorry, I gave incorrect information re the Issue Date. I received the Claim Form on 23rd December but the Issue Date was 20th December. Please can you advise when the deadline is to submit my defence.
    Originally posted by wistful
    I have adjusted my earlier post accordingly.
    .
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 13th Jan 20, 4:21 PM
    • 5,115 Posts
    • 7,685 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 20, 4:21 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 20, 4:21 PM
    Dues this car park behind top topps tiles, or is it a multiple retail outlet
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • wistful
    • By wistful 13th Jan 20, 4:37 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    wistful
    Further info
    Beamerguy. Civil Enforcement did issue the PCN. ToppsTiles used their contact details for the car park management to request cancellation of the ticket and received a text message stating that the PCN had been cancelled from their contact which was creativecarpark. I used Civil Enforcement's online appeals process to appeal the PCN on the grounds that it had been cancelled by Creativecarpark. They rejected the appeal and so I appealed to POPLA on the same grounds.I do not have any correspondence from Civil Enforcement outlining why the appeal was rejected when I had evidence that the PCN had been cancelled by creativecarpark. I think it was all done through their website's online appeal process. I have today emailed Civil Enforcement an SAR request, including any earlier appeal process correspondence.

    Coupon-mad. The email I received was from the member of staff at ToppsTiles who received the cancellation notification on her mobile phone from creativecarpark. The email had a screenshot attached of the cancellation information that she received from creativecarpark. The screenshot did not identify me as the customer whose ticket had been cancelled but it was sent by creativecarpark in response to the request from Topps Tiles that my specific PCN be cancelled and she used my PCN number to make that request. The email trail is copied below - with any personal details omitted. Shall I send all the relevant information to steve.c and gemma.d as you advised earlier?

    Email trail

    From: office at creativecarpark
    Subject: RE: PCN
    Date: 3 April 2019 at 10:38:56 BST
    to Me

    Good morning,

    Thank you for your email.

    Please note that the PCN has not been cancelled.

    As stated before, we do not deal with parking charge notice appeals.

    If you wish to appeal the parking charge notice or make a complain you must do so in writing to: CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD, Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool, L2 3PF. Alternatively, you can submit an online appeal at
    Please contact the Enforcement company.

    Yours faithfully,

    Admin Team
    Creative Car Park Limited
    33/35 Daws Lane, London NW7 4SD
    Tel 0870 919 8000

    From: Me
    Sent: 28 March 2019 18:22
    To: creativecarpark
    Subject: Re: PCN

    Dear Admin Team,

    Thank you for your reply. I have a number of further requests.

    1. Please can you explain why a notification that the PCN was cancelled was sent by creativecarpark to Topps Tiles if the PCN has not been cancelled?

    2. As previously requested please can you identify a named individual to whom I can address correspondence.

    3. As previously requested please can you send me details as to how I can make an official complaint about your company.

    From Me.

    On 28 Mar 2019, at 11:46,

    Email from creativecarpark

    Good afternoon,

    Thank you for your email.

    Please note that the PCN has not been cancelled.

    As stated before, we do not deal with parking charge notice appeals.
    If you wish to appeal the parking charge notice you must do so in writing to: CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD, Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool, L2 3PF. Alternatively, you can submit an online appeal at
    Please contact the Enforcement company as per above.
    Please include your Parking Charge Notice number and vehicle registration number in your appeal letter or email.
    Yours faithfully,
    Admin Team
    Creative Car Park Limited
    33/35 Daws Lane, London NW7 4SD

    Tel 0870 919 8000


    From: Me
    Sent: 23 March 2019 15:27
    To: office at creativecarpark
    Subject: Re: PCN

    Dear Admin Team,

    Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately it has not helped me at all and is identical to the last email you sent me. I have not asked you to “deal with parking charge notice appeals”, I have asked you to provide confirmation of an action taken by your company as per my previous email. I am requesting this information for the third time.

    I would also request that you send me details as to how I can make an official complaint about your company. Please could a named individual reply to this email rather than the anonymous “Admin team”.

    Regards,

    Me


    On 22 Mar 2019, at 16:25,
    email: office creativecarpark


    Good afternoon,

    Please note we do not deal with parking charge notice appeals.

    If you wish to appeal the parking charge notice you must do so in writing to: CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD, Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool, L2 3PF. Alternatively, you can submit an online appeal at
    Please contact the Enforcement company as per above.

    Please include your Parking Charge Notice number and vehicle registration number in your appeal letter or email.

    Yours faithfully,

    Admin Team
    Creative Car Park Limited
    33/35 Daws Lane, London NW7 4SD

    Tel 0870 919 8000


    From: Me
    Sent: 22 March 2019 12:08
    To: email office at creativecarpark
    Subject: Re: PCN

    Dear Admin Team,

    Thank you for your email.

    Please can you confirm that on 6th February 2019 your organisation issued a cancellation notice for the parking charge PCN. If you are unable to do this please can you advise me who to direct my request to within your organisation that could provide this confirmation.

    Regards,

    Me


    On 15 Mar 2019, at 11:31,
    From email: office creativecarpark


    Good morning,

    Please note we do not deal with parking charge notice appeals.

    If you wish to appeal the parking charge notice you must do so in writing to: CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD, Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool, L2 3PF. Alternatively, you can submit an online appeal at

    Please include your Parking Charge Notice number and vehicle registration number in your appeal letter or email.

    Yours faithfully,

    Admin Team
    Creative Car Park Limited
    33/35 Daws Lane, London NW7 4SD

    Tel 0870 919 8000

    From: Me
    Sent: 11 March 2019 12:50
    To: office at creativecarpark
    Cc: Topps Kings Heath
    Subject: PCN

    Hi,

    I have received a letter from Civil Enforcement Ltd today requesting £100 “full payment” of the PCN referred to below. At the time the PCN was issued the car park at Kings Heath Retail Park, Findlay Road, Birmingham, B14 7SN was owned or managed bycreativecarpark.co.uk. As you can see from the below email trail, X, a member of staff at Topps Tiles in Kings Heath, contactedcreativecarpark.co.uk and was informed that the PCN had been cancelled. I would appreciate your help in sorting out this matter for me. I understand that the ownership or management of the car park has since changed hands.

    Regards,

    Me

    c.c Topps Tiles




    From: Topps Kings Heath
    Subject: RE: Parking Charge Notice: For attention of X
    Date: 6 February 2019 12:36:24 GMT
    To: Me

    Hi "Me"

    I have submitted the cancellation.

    Please see the attached screen shot for peace of mind.

    Kind regards

    X

    Screenshot:

    clients.creativ
    ecarpark.co.uk
    says

    We will no longer contact the driver
    about this PCN.
    Please contact the driver and let
    them know the ticket has been
    cancelled

    From: Me
    Sent: 06 February 2019 11:49
    To: Topps Kings Heath
    Subject: Parking Charge Notice: For attention of X

    Hi X,

    My wife Y was in earlier today about the Parking Fine we have received following her visit to Topps Tiles on 28/01/2019. I understand you are going to sort this out for us.

    PCN Number

    Thanks very much for your help.

    Best wishes

    Me
    • wistful
    • By wistful 13th Jan 20, 4:43 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    wistful
    Half_way. I'm fairly sure that the car park is for a multiple retail outlet
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jan 20, 4:06 AM
    • 80,692 Posts
    • 95,221 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As long as the PCN number matches, you have proof the PCN was cancelled.

    The BPA need to investigate. Send them the evidence, this week, then move on to drafting a defence.

    Think about a counter-claim of £500 for data misuse, DPA 2018 breach, and harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act, as per Ferguson v British Gas. If you decide to counter claim then we can help you word it, and it just goes under your defence, following on from it, but separately signed and dated by you.

    Costs £25 or so as a court fee to counterclaim for a few hundred. Your case lends itself to that possibility if the email trail/screenshot has the right PCN number.

    POPLA should be ashamed. This is a farce, you showed EVIDENCE and the parking firm didn't!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-01-2020 at 8:29 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • wistful
    • By wistful 14th Jan 20, 7:58 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    wistful
    Coupon-mad. Thanks again for your help. I have email evidence that I sent the PCN number to the member of staff at ToppsTiles, who then responded by email to me saying that the PCN had been cancelled by creativecarpark and attached a screenshot of the generic cancellation email or text they received from creativecarpark in response to their request that the PCN be cancelled. The attached screenshot itself is brief and simply but clearly says:

    clients.creativ
    ecarpark.co.uk
    says

    We will no longer contact the driver
    about this PCN.
    Please contact the driver and let
    them know the ticket has been
    cancelled.

    The screenshot does not have any identifiable PCN number attached but has been attached to the email from ToppsTiles to me as evidence that ToppsTiles had received notification from creativecarpark that creativecarpark stated they had cancelled the PCN in response to ToppsTiles contacting creativecarpark re my PCN and providing creativecarpark with my PCN number, which is clearly identified in the email trail. The PCN is recorded once, in the first email from me to ToppsTiles. In my view there is only one reasonable explanation for the email and screenshot attachment from ToppsTiles. Creativecarpark did inform them by text or email that my "ticket has been cancelled."

    Following your advice yesterday I have already emailed BPA asking them to investigate and I have forwarded the original email trail to them with a copy of the screenshot attached. I am furious about the whole matter and I am very pleased you take the same view of events as I do and yes, I would seriously consider a counter claim provided there is no major additional financial risk to me in making a counter claim? I have already spent a considerable amount of time on this including drafting my defence which took many hours yesterday and which is outlined below.

    My draft defence:

    I am XXX, Defendant in this matter and I assert that the Claimant has no cause for action for the following reasons:

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. It is believed that it will be a matter of common ground that the claim relates to a purported debt as the result of the issue of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) in relation to an alleged breach of the terms and conditions by the driver of the vehicle XXXX XXX when it was parked at XXX XXX.

    3. The Particulars of Claim does not state whether they believe the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5, as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

    4. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    5. Further, it is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. The terms on the Claimant's signage are displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

    6.
    REBUTTAL OF CLAIM

    The defendant complained to the retailer XXX XXX about the PCN and was told by the retailer it would be cancelled if the defendant provided the retailer with the PCN number. The defendant emailed the PCN to the retailer. The retailer contacted the operator of the car park with the PCN number to request for the PCN to be cancelled. The retailer emailed the defendant to report that the car park operator had contacted them stating that the PCN had been cancelled and attached to the email a screenshot from creativecarpark stating, “clients.creativecarpark.co.uk says we will no longer contact the driver about this PCN. Please contact the driver and let them know the ticket has been cancelled”. The defendant has email evidence of all of this. Despite this, payment was pursued by Civil Enforcement, which is effectively the same company as creativecarpark. In email correspondence with the defendant, creativecarpark have refused to confirm that they informed the retailer that the PCN had been cancelled, despite receiving email evidence from the defendant that this was the case. Creativecarpark have refused to engage with the defendant on this matter. They have not denied informing the retailer that they stated, “the ticket has been cancelled”. An appeal to Civil Enforcement on the grounds that the PCN had been cancelled by creativecarpark, was unsuccessful. An appeal to POPLA was unsuccessful too, despite the fact that POPLA acknowledged that the defendant had produced evidence which, “shows that Creativecarparks.co.uk stated that the ticket had been cancelled.”

    7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

    8. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £80, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

    9. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.
    Last edited by wistful; 14-01-2020 at 8:12 AM. Reason: Clarification of some points
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 14th Jan 20, 8:18 AM
    • 6,253 Posts
    • 8,277 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    EVERY para is numbered
    A defence is a series of arguments, Your "6" is fodder for a witness statement, should it get that far

    I would add at the top that this PCN was cancelled on X date by the landholder creative car parks.

    6) Could read

    6) The D is not liable for any sum, as the parking charge notice ref xxxxxx was cancelled on y date by the landholder .... Once the charge notice was canelled, no debt can possibly be due.
    • wistful
    • By wistful 14th Jan 20, 8:53 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    wistful
    Thanks Nosferatu1001. I do not know what creativecarpark's official or legal role was in this matter. I don't think they owned the land. It seems they were the point of contact for the retailer for issues relating to management of the land. Should I say landholder or land manager?

    I will insert "This PCN was cancelled on 6th February 2019 by the land manager". Should this precede my point 1?

    I will remove the whole of my point 6 and replace with

    6. The defendant is not liable for any sum, as the parking charge notice ref xxxxxx was cancelled on y date by the land manager Craetivecarpark. Once the charge notice was cancelled, no debt can possibly be due.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Jan 20, 9:19 AM
    • 16,399 Posts
    • 17,339 Thanks
    The Deep
    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 14th Jan 20, 9:22 AM
    • 2,468 Posts
    • 3,502 Thanks
    Castle
    Thanks Nosferatu1001. I do not know what creativecarpark's official or legal role was in this matter. I don't think they owned the land. It seems they were the point of contact for the retailer for issues relating to management of the land. Should I say landholder or land manager?
    Originally posted by wistful
    Normally the landowner will have a contract with Creative Car Park which in turn will have a contract with CEL. (So Creativecarpark will be the car park manager).
    • wistful
    • By wistful 14th Jan 20, 10:06 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    wistful
    Thanks for the further replies. I have just received an email from a Gemma at BPA who is going to investigate the matter further.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jan 20, 8:33 PM
    • 80,692 Posts
    • 95,221 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK, so as long as you have done the AOS and know your defence deadline and won't miss it, I suggest we wait and see what Gemma Dorans says and if the BPA are useless, I will happily write you a robust counter claim.

    Revenge is a dish best served cold.

    And no, there is no financial implication, you are allowed to counter claim and it will stop CEL being able to avoid the case continuing to a hearing, as you then hold the key and YOU can force a hearing for YOUR claim, even if they try to skedaddle and discontinue!

    Your costs would be the filing fee and (eventually, if CEL do not settle) you'd then pay another £25 (the hearing fee if they are not proceeding - if they are, THEY pay the hearing fee!) and you add them to your claim to get from CEL.

    Sadly, I think the BPA will get this cancelled and spoil your fun. Let us know!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 20-01-2020 at 1:26 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 15th Jan 20, 10:44 PM
    • 5,115 Posts
    • 7,685 Thanks
    Half_way
    Half_way. I'm fairly sure that the car park is for a multiple retail outlet
    Originally posted by wistful

    it would give great satsifaciton if you could draw the landowner into the as well.
    Much as a fightback against the parking company would be great, going for the landowner who allowed the pakring company would be poetic justice.
    Large corporations should have looked into what PPCs are, they should have legal teams/resoources etc etc
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
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