Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Chris D
    • By MSE Chris D 13th Jan 20, 10:07 AM
    • 17Posts
    • 5Thanks
    MSE Chris D
    Leasehold reform proposals could save homeowners 1,000s - MSE News
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 20, 10:07 AM
    Leasehold reform proposals could save homeowners 1,000s - MSE News 13th Jan 20 at 10:07 AM
    Millions of homeowners looking to extend their lease or purchase their freehold could save 1,000s under new proposals published by the Law Commission, though any changes are likely to be a long way off...
    Read the full story:
    'Leasehold reform proposals could save homeowners 1,000s'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven't already, join the forum to reply.
Page 3
    • Ron Rose
    • By Ron Rose 14th Jan 20, 11:19 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Ron Rose
    Proposal
    Please Please Please remember this is a proposal of a possible solution by the Law Commission. The Full report states that this proposal is based upon and reflects the human rights of the freeholders. It was instigated by a 10-minute rule bill that asked for reform along the lines of a ground rent multiplier. It has cross party support and Sir Peter Borromley is championing it through parliament and is very active in this. We should all write to our MP's and demand their support.
    Ron
    • Nlc
    • By Nlc 14th Jan 20, 11:29 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Nlc
    The law commission work was not instigated by Justin Madders private members bill. It was instigated well before that due to the tireless efforts of the Leasehold Knowledge Partnership (LKP) together with the National Leasehold Campain (NLC) And the APPG on leasehold & Commonhold reform.
    I agree we need to ALL write to our MPS to encourage them to join the APPG
    • Nlc
    • By Nlc 14th Jan 20, 11:43 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Nlc
    Justin Madders and Sir Peter Bottomley are doing an incredible job if championing leaseholders.

    Thankyou
    • simondv
    • By simondv 14th Jan 20, 12:27 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    simondv
    Right to Manage is not always possible for leaseholders. The building has to be separate, have less than 20% commercial in it, not housing association, not have shared ownership leaseholders. Cannot usually be done for an estate of leasehold or fleecehold houses either. Getting a large group of leaseholders, many not living in the building to agree and dealing with apathy is not easy.
    The Law Commission is looking at the anomalies and looking to make Right to Manage easier.
    • dnees
    • By dnees 14th Jan 20, 1:20 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    dnees
    75,000 plus ALL costs to extend our lease of 46 yrs left.
    So dissappointing this Law Commission advice to the Government on reforming leasehold. The freeholderr/landlords are protected by law, this leaves them free to exploit, and bleed dry the leaseholder. It's an archaic teunure that need abolishing. FH/LL should not be allowed in this day and age to get away with what they have for 1,000 years, read louie Burns e book ( on Amazon) he explains all the pitfalls of being a leaseholder, forearmed is forewarned. Please join the National Leasehold Campaign on Face book, Twitter and check out their website, . https://nationalleaseholdcampaign.org/
    lots of free info, help and suopport, you are not alone. Please make your self aware of what being a leaseholder is! We have a lease of 46 yrs left and have been quoted by our Freeholder/landlord 75,000 plus all costs ours and the FH/LL ! this will rise by 5,000 a year if we do not extend our lease. This is not a good place to be in, dictated to by a greedy Freeholder/landlord ! Not a good feeling. We were unaware of what it meant to be a leaseholder, and I know there are still millions out there that are just like us. 6.5 million leaseholders in England and Wales.
    • dnees
    • By dnees 14th Jan 20, 1:29 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    dnees
    Complain and threaten to sue your solicitor.
    Originally posted by Richard Webster
    Yes you can do this, but even if you prove negligence by your solicitor you are awarded a ridiculous sum, (can't remember the exact amount but I have a feeling it's about 200), this of course is paid out to you by the solicitor's insurance company. It still leaves you in the awful situation of being stuck in that property, paying ground rent ( which is for no service), uncapped maintenance fees for god knows what as often and usually un itemised, and unable to sell, people do not want to get lumbered with a leasehold property, you actually only own time to live in that property if you have a lease. YOU DO NOT OWN THE PROPETY!
    • dnees
    • By dnees 14th Jan 20, 1:34 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    dnees
    This have been going on for years.
    People need to take responsibility for their actions which is called do your own research before buying a property
    People are so brainwashed into thinking that I must get on the property ladder before x or y, that they neglect the most import things that are needed to be done.
    A simple search on "leasehold" v "freehold" for a house would put one straight.
    Who in their right might buys a new build or not would want to buy a leasehold house, unless it s the ridiculous notion : "that's is their dream house".
    The only "dream house" available is six feet under the ground.
    Originally posted by Socajam
    Thanks for your comments, I just want to make you aware of the fact that when we bought our lease there was no internet available, we've had it for 36 yrs now. If you couldn't afford a house you bought a flat or maisonette. that was it. Just saying!
    • dnees
    • By dnees 14th Jan 20, 2:07 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    dnees
    See the title of the thread. Does that not give leaseholders hope? Does capping the ground rent at 0.1% for the calculation of the purchase price not give leaseholders hope? Does being able to calculate the value of the leasehold not give any hope? Does making the process of buying the freehold easier and less expensive not give leaseholders hope?
    Originally posted by worzel_gummidge
    This report does not give us leaseholders hope, no. They have left the possibility that things will remain the same as they are now! WHY did the Law Commission leave this as an option for the Government to choose? after all the LONG LONG consultations with leaseholders making clear what we want they left this in! this is one reason we do not have optimism, we have waited so long for this report, it is awful for us. We need leasehold abolished, I have always felt this from the day I found out what a lease is, now I feel it even more strongly, leasehold has to go. If Scotland can do it we can here.
    • keveen
    • By keveen 14th Jan 20, 3:27 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    keveen
    Nobody says anything about paying a 3rd party except for groundrent. Nothing else is in the lease, esp older ones. There is nothing about the 80 year cutoff. Plus people think they are buying their own home, nobody tells them they are a "tenant". Leasehold houses are still advertised "for sale" which is a lie. They are not for sale, the "leasehold interest" is - not so saleable like that. Now we know because of the current scandal but millions will still not quite understand what they bought. It should state in plain English: you are NOT a home owner, you are a tenant and big costs will hit you in a few years. Nowhere is that written and professionals do not say anything like that.
    You get more protection buying a car under Consumer Law -which also does not apply to a house purchase.
    Last edited by keveen; 14-01-2020 at 3:30 PM.
    Hi, weve had to remove your signature. If youre not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if youre still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • keveen
    • By keveen 14th Jan 20, 3:28 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    keveen
    Plus the system is Feudal and should be abolished - like in the rest of the world - and even Scotland who abolished Feudalism and feudal dues like ground rent.
    Hi, weve had to remove your signature. If youre not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if youre still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • keveen
    • By keveen 14th Jan 20, 3:32 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    keveen
    Complain and threaten to sue your solicitor.
    Originally posted by Richard Webster
    You only have a 6 year window to do that I believe. The problem is systemic - hence the Law Commission report - but then again they were saying the same things 50 years ago! Nothing got done.
    Hi, weve had to remove your signature. If youre not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if youre still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • keveen
    • By keveen 14th Jan 20, 3:38 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    keveen
    Some of these posts seem to be in a remarkably similar style! Somebody is obviously pretty upset about this.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    That's because there are thousands and thousands of people now getting hit by endless fees and costs for extending their leases. Read the reports and the evidence - the biggest response to a consultation they ever had!
    https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/housing-communities-and-local-government-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/leasehold-reform-17-19/publications/
    Hi, weve had to remove your signature. If youre not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if youre still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • starving artist
    • By starving artist 14th Jan 20, 7:56 PM
    • 704 Posts
    • 6,537 Thanks
    starving artist
    [QUOTE=DRVN1;76718513]
    A freeholder is simply an investor.
    An investor expects a return on their investment but all investors are informed and warned at every opportunity, that Investments may go down as well as up.
    In fact it is the legal responsibility of those encouraging investment in their products to inform and warn of such.
    There is no such legal responsibility apparently Lee on those who undertake a leasehold agreement to be warned or fully informed of exactly what the financial penalties and losses will be. And they will be losses. There is no 'possible' about it.
    Freeholders seem unable to accept the standard acceptable principles of investments involving risk.
    /QUOTE]


    This is a really important point when considering the 'human rights' of the freeholder. I do not see how it can be argued that the freeholder has a protected right to the windfall gains made as a result of house prices being allowed to spiral out of control.



    A lot of anger is being expressed here about the leasehold system but the only way to bring about change is to communicate these views through lobbying groups like Leasehold Knowledge Partnership and your MP who can put pressure on Parliament to change the law.


    I don't think the Law Commission is the enemy. They carried out consultations and research on all sides and have attempted to take account of the highly conflicted interests involved. Some options have been discarded because they are just being realistic about the arguments against reform which will inevitably be encountered. The Law Commission does not make laws. The government and Parliament do.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 14th Jan 20, 8:04 PM
    • 16,276 Posts
    • 84,133 Thanks
    GDB2222
    That's because there are thousands and thousands of people now getting hit by endless fees and costs for extending their leases. Read the reports and the evidence - the biggest response to a consultation they ever had!
    https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/housing-communities-and-local-government-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/leasehold-reform-17-19/publications/
    Originally posted by keveen

    I appreciate that people buy a lease and would like to extend that at nil cost, but it means the freeholder suffers a commensurate loss. There's no money tree to shake, which makes the money appear.

    The argument that freeholders are rich people, so ought to be fleeced in this way is a bit odd. Car makers are rich companies, so should they be made to give their cars away? Apple is an incredibly rich company, so should we all get free iphones? Maybe, we should change the political system, but for the time being we seem to be in a capitalist country.

    Where people claim not to have understood that they were buying a lease, I am simply flabbergasted. The biggest transaction of their lives, and they claim they did not understand what they were doing? To be frank, I don't believe them. But, if it were true, it's not painting a very flattering picture of themselves, is it?
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • dnees
    • By dnees 14th Jan 20, 11:14 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    dnees
    As a landlord freeholder you invest in someone’s home. It cannot be equated with buying a car or phone. I’m not against capitalism at all, but I do think it wrong that we have a law that says it’s ok to invest in someone’s home. To be frank I do not know how freehold landlords sleep at night, their business is to extract as much money possible from hard working people who thought they owned their home.
    • chris_leaseholder_missold
    • By chris_leaseholder_missold 14th Jan 20, 11:23 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    chris_leaseholder_missold
    Mis-sold
    What about the people who were told they could only buy their freehold after 2 years but then found out it had been sold to someone else after 3 months? What would you call it if you were expecting to own your freehold at the low cost detailed by the developer but then find out it costs thousands more after its sold on?

    Leasehold across England and Wales needs to be scrapped so how do we go about it?

    Maybe ban all leasehold from now on and if you want to buy your Freehold then it should be bought back at the price the freeholder paid for it. That way they don't make a loss.... How's that?

    Just make it easy to do so we can all get on with living our lives without all this greed and nonsense.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 15th Jan 20, 4:45 AM
    • 5,222 Posts
    • 3,683 Thanks
    Tom99
    I think leaseholders should campaign/lobby MPs etc for what is realistically likely to be implemented.
    Calls for leasehold to be banned or compulsory purchase of a landlords interest without appropriate compensation are unrealistic to expect. The things which will make a material difference to the price paid and are within the options set out by the Law Commission are:

    1 - Remove marriage value from the calculation.
    2 - Introduce online calculator which will fix premium to be paid using a per-determined formula and discount rates.
    3 - Ignore ground rent in excess of 0.1% of market value.
    4 - Strictly limit freeholders 'valuation/negotiation' costs since the only variable is the value of the new long lease. Maybe fix a cost for this at say 500 then the freeholder can spend whatever they like or even do away with employing a valuer since they will be paying rather then the leaseholder.
    5 - Strictly limit legal costs by having a standard deed of variation/lease extension and remove the right of the mortgage co to be involved. It's possible the legal costs could be removed entirely if a standard 'pack' was produced which included Land Reg application forms. Maybe even make the Land Reg part free of fees.
    • dean1920
    • By dean1920 15th Jan 20, 7:06 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    dean1920
    I bought a flat which was leasehold- don’t think there’s much chance of buying one freehold in England really!! My concerns are the rip off service charges. When I “bought” my flat I knew there was a service charge but I was told by the builder that it would be set at a reasonable amount and that was a main factor in me deciding to buy the flat.Trouble is the builder then sold the freehold to KINGSTON PROPERTY SERVICES who installed themselves as the service provider and the service charge has doubled within seven years . There is no cap on what these clowns charge and they conveniently ignore any complaints.
    Some people on here seem to think that this isn’t a problem or it’s our own fault!! Makes my blood boil- bottom line is if I knew or was made aware that these type of companies could do this with no fear of being held to account I would never have bought the flat in the first place.
    Every leaseholder should join the NATIONAL LEASEHOLD CAMPAIGN and demand fairer legislation and the same human rights that the Law commission seems to think is so important to freeholders.
    • Lemony1234
    • By Lemony1234 15th Jan 20, 7:18 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Lemony1234
    Modern Leasehold is immoral
    No leaseholders will be happy with the report and its recommendations. They dont go far enough to stop this immoral practice or to help current leaseholders get out of the awful situation they are in. There are loopholes being manipulated for profit by developers and these are not being addressed. Developers have taken the government and house/flat buyers for mugs with their dishonesty and hidden costs and are still getting away with this. We cannot sell our leasehold properties do this is stalling the housing market, something the government were trying to help with new schemes such as Help To Buy but developers take advantage with hidden costs, and poor build quality, leaving thousands of homeowners in debt and limbo. This needs to end!!!!
    • HRH MUngo
    • By HRH MUngo 15th Jan 20, 7:31 AM
    • 240 Posts
    • 805 Thanks
    HRH MUngo
    I appreciate that people buy a lease and would like to extend that at nil cost, but it means the freeholder suffers a commensurate loss. There's no money tree to shake, which makes the money appear.

    The argument that freeholders are rich people, so ought to be fleeced in this way is a bit odd. Car makers are rich companies, so should they be made to give their cars away? Apple is an incredibly rich company, so should we all get free iphones? Maybe, we should change the political system, but for the time being we seem to be in a capitalist country.

    Where people claim not to have understood that they were buying a lease, I am simply flabbergasted. The biggest transaction of their lives, and they claim they did not understand what they were doing? To be frank, I don't believe them. But, if it were true, it's not painting a very flattering picture of themselves, is it?
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    My son has a leasehold flat as it is all he could afford. He bought it in 2012. It was built in the 1960s and we gave him the money to extend the lease.

    He was disappointed and angry that he didn't 'own' his flat in the same way we own our freehold bungalow, although he accepted he hadn't a lot of choice as it was all he could afford. I cheered him up a bit by pointing out that he could 'sell' the leasehold interest (and profit from it), just like we could sell our freehold bungalow, especially now that he has a lease that lasts until 2140. However, had we not have paid for him to extend the lease, he would have had a depreciating asset with a lease of under 60 years. This would be difficult to sell because it would be unmortgageable.

    I do agree that the leasehold system is archaic and should be abolished, although in a large block of flats such as my son lives in, I assume you would still need some sort of management company.
    I used to be seven-day-weekend
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,171Posts Today

5,869Users online

Martin's Twitter