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  • FIRST POST
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 9th Jan 20, 1:29 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 1Thanks
    galaxy4444
    BW legal CLAIM FORM from CCBC Northampton
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:29 PM
    BW legal CLAIM FORM from CCBC Northampton 9th Jan 20 at 1:29 PM
    Hi
    I have read through the newbie section and as my CCBC claim form is from Northampton it advised me to create a thread for help. Details below.
    Claimant - Napier parking limited through B W Legal.
    County court business centre claim form from Northampton.
    Claim form Issue Date 31st Dec 2019 and i must respond with 14 days.
    It was for a FCN which occurred in May 2019 at 21:04 at a permit holder car park. The car park is for staff of nearby shops which were all closed. The signs are unclear and it was dark.
    They are claiming for 239.58 total. 104.58 FCN, 4.58 interest and a 60 contractual costs.Then court fees 25 and legal rep 50.
    I have ignored all correspondence up to now.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm confused with what steps to take and in what order and if they are different with it being from Northampton?
    Do i send a SAR letter?
    Do i need to notify the CCBC that i will be appealing?
    (I am very new to this so apologies if ive missed something that explains it)

    thanks in advance.
    Last edited by galaxy4444; 09-01-2020 at 1:34 PM.
Page 1
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 9th Jan 20, 1:33 PM
    • 8,009 Posts
    • 9,072 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:33 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:33 PM
    You can submit a SAR to the PPC, even though you seem to know why you received the PCN, as it might elicit some paperwork or photos that you can use to your advantage. For now you need to look at the drop box link to see how to complete the AoS. What is the date of issue on the claim form? If you post this, KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and useful advice.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Jan 20, 1:35 PM
    • 26,776 Posts
    • 35,032 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:35 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:35 PM
    Yes email a SAR to Napier DPO

    Yes , do the AOS online , after reading how in post #2 of the newbies faq sticky thread near the top of the forum

    Start drafting your defence and post it below

    Ps , every MCOL claim form is issued by the CCBC in Northampton

    The paper claims come from one centre , in Salford
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 9th Jan 20, 1:36 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    galaxy4444
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:36 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:36 PM
    Hi thanks for the quick reply.
    The date of issue on the claim form is 31st Dec 2019, it says the day of service is taken 5 days after the issue date shown.
    Ill check the dropbox link. Thank you.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jan 20, 1:41 PM
    • 26,583 Posts
    • 43,669 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:41 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:41 PM
    Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm confused with what steps to take and in what order and if they are different with it being from Northampton?
    90%+ of all small claims emanate from Northampton CCBC - it is the national administration centre. Your case will eventually be heard at your local court - nominating that comes later in the process. Your claim is on all fours with everyone else's - so just follow the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Jan 20, 2:01 PM
    • 19,592 Posts
    • 24,984 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:01 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:01 PM
    The date of issue on the claim form is 31st Dec 2019, it says the day of service is taken 5 days after the issue date shown.
    Originally posted by galaxy4444
    With a Claim Issue Date of 31st December, you have until Monday 20th January to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To file an AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

    Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 3rd February 2020 to file your Defence.

    That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 9th Jan 20, 2:03 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    galaxy4444
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:03 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:03 PM
    Thanks, ive sent a SAr request to Napier and ive done the AOS by following the dropbox link.
    Im going through the Bargepole posts on poor signage and writing out my defence which i will post.
    Is there anything else i should put in my defence or is poor signage enough? Is it worth mentioning the permits are for businesses open during the day that were closed or am i digging a hole or admitting guilt?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Jan 20, 2:08 PM
    • 19,592 Posts
    • 24,984 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:08 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:08 PM
    No poor signage is not enough.

    Have you read any of the seventeen example Defences linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread?

    Read them all. Take you time to get it right.
    .
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 9th Jan 20, 2:15 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    galaxy4444
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:15 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 20, 2:15 PM
    That's good news poor signage is enough. I have read some of the defences but not all 17 from post #2. I will read the rest. Thanks.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Jan 20, 2:19 PM
    • 19,592 Posts
    • 24,984 Thanks
    KeithP
    I wrote: Poor signage is not enough.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Jan 20, 2:23 PM
    • 26,776 Posts
    • 35,032 Thanks
    Redx
    You want to Chuck everything but the kitchen sink in , a one topic defence is very poor and poor signage is NOT enough

    Leave the story telling for the Witness plus Exhibits plus costs schedule stage in a few months time

    Read the CEC16 thread plus the thread by basher52 plus the abuse of process thread too , as well as those 17 defence examples , then adapt one
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 9th Jan 20, 2:27 PM
    • 6,253 Posts
    • 8,277 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Poor signage is not all you defend upon. Not a single one of th 17 defences ONLY talks about poor signage, which should be your clue!
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 9th Jan 20, 2:45 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    galaxy4444
    Sorry, I misread that.

    Great, I’ll read through all examples and get everything that’s relevant for my defence.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jan 20, 4:01 PM
    • 80,681 Posts
    • 95,218 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If you are confused about the procedures, read the links under the red heading in the NEWBIES thread, 'IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN' which takes you to bargepole's thread about COURT PROCEDURES.

    Please please no asking us what to do with your DQ form, when you get it after defending, please no. Absolute bugbear on this forum right now and we need to stop people asking that.

    Anyway, show us your draft defence whcih we are more than happy to check.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 15th Jan 20, 11:16 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    galaxy4444
    Hi,

    I requested a SAR and got a reply they need proof of id as expected. On their reply they had 2 reference numbers in the email subject. Does this mean they have 2 charges against me? I didnt know about this but its possible as i just threw the letters out without taking much notice up until this point. This was the email subject - "RE: SAR - WL118xxxx & WL116xxxx Reg No XXXXXXXX" If this is the case does it change anything or should i just wait for the info from the SAR?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th Jan 20, 11:21 PM
    • 26,776 Posts
    • 35,032 Thanks
    Redx
    provide the proof , but do not wait for the SAR reply

    you were told to draft your defence and post it , this is your priority once the SAR has been sent, you have had a week already, so in blunt terms

    GET ON WITH DRAFTING YOUR DEFENCE and post it below for checking and critique (it is not dependent on the SAR reply which probably wont arrive in time anyway)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jan 20, 11:37 PM
    • 80,681 Posts
    • 95,218 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes that is two PCNs at Willen Lakes I think, starting with 'WL'.

    This claim is only for one though, as you said:
    They are claiming for 239.58 total. 104.58 FCN, 4.58 interest and a 60 contractual costs. Then court fees 25 and legal rep 50.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 16th Jan 20, 12:01 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    galaxy4444
    My draft defence if you could check and advise me how to improve it please.

    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxxx

    BETWEEN:

    BW Legal (Napier parking) (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxxxxxx (Defendant)

    ________________________________________
    DEFENCE
    ________________________________________

    The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.
    It is admitted that the Defendant was the authorised registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged incident.

    it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.
    I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:

    1) Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice–non-compliance.
    The BPA’s Code of Practice states (13) that there are two grace periods: one at the end (of a minimum of 10 minutes) and one at the start. As stated in BPA’s Code of Practice (13.1), (13.2) and (13.4).

    2) There are no entrance signs for the regular entry and signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces. Furthermore, there is no marked parking bay at the location nor boundary of the venue.

    3) The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

    4) Failure to comply with the data protection 'ICO Code of Practice' applicable to ANPR (no information about SAR rights, no privacy statement, no evaluation to justify that 24/7 ANPR enforcement at this site is justified, fair and proportionate). A serious BPA CoP breach.

    5) No Evidence of Period Parked – Does not meet PoFA2012 requirements Contrary to the mandatory provisions of the BPA Code of Practice, there is no record to show that the vehicle was parked versus attempting to read the terms and conditions before deciding against parking/entering into a contract.

    6) Vehicle Images contained in PCN: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance The BPA Code of Practice point 20.5a stipulates that: "When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered."
    The PCN in question contains two close-up license plate images. The time and date stamp and license plate have been inserted into the underneath (but not part of) the images. In addition, the first image does not even show a vehicle, only an inserted image of the license plate and time stamp. Given the vast area that has neither been bounded nor marked as parking restricted, any vehicle passing by can be captured by Napier parking’s APRN. As a result, these images cannot be used as the confirmation of the incident and Napier parking claim was unauthorised.

    7) The ANPR System is Neither Reliable nor Accurate Napier parking simply claims “that the vehicle “entered [xxx] at [xxx] and departed at [xxx]”. Napier parking states the images and time stamps are collected by its ANPR camera system installed on site. In terms of the technology of the ANPR cameras themselves, please take note and bin your usual 'ANPR is generally OK' template because:
    The British Parking Association DOES NOT AUDIT the ANPR systems in use by parking operators, and the BPA has NO WAY to ensure that the systems are in good working order or that the data collected is accurate. Independent research has NOT found that the technology is 'generally accurate' or proportionate, or reliable at all, and this is one of the reasons why Councils are banned from using it in car parks.

    8) The Signs Fail to Transparently Warn Drivers of what the ANPR Data will be used for which breaches the BPA Code of Practice and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 due to inherent failure to indicate the 'commercial intent' of the cameras. Paragraph 21.1 of the BPA Code of Practice advises operators that they may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as they do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. The Code of Practice requires that car park signs must tell drivers that the operator is using this technology and what it will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for. Napier parking’s signs do not comply with these requirements because these car park signs failed to accurately explain what the ANPR data would be used for, which is a 'failure to identify its commercial intent', contrary to the BPA CoP and Consumer law.

    9) The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case 100. The claim includes an additional 60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

    10) In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

    Name
    Signature
    Date
    Last edited by galaxy4444; 16-01-2020 at 12:15 AM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jan 20, 12:05 AM
    • 26,776 Posts
    • 35,032 Thanks
    Redx
    why has it got the BPA grace periods in it when Napier are IPC members ?

    and why is the BPA mentioned in several other paragraphs ? as an IPC member , not BPA member

    why havent you got the abuse of process paragraphs in it (by coupon mad) ?
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • galaxy4444
    • By galaxy4444 16th Jan 20, 12:23 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    galaxy4444
    Ive taken sections and info from different cases that are relevant to mine (or i thought they were!). Ive misunderstood the BPA and ICP regulations. So anything i've put down that is related to BPA is irellevant for Napier as a ICP member?
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