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  • FIRST POST
    • shudman
    • By shudman 6th Jan 20, 9:06 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    shudman
    EON Smart meter and Inhouse display
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 20, 9:06 PM
    EON Smart meter and Inhouse display 6th Jan 20 at 9:06 PM
    Having recently had a SMETS2 smart meter fitted by EON, they give a nice little inhouse display (IHD) unit (made by Chameleon) to show your usage currently and historically. Splendid !
    So when the engineer left me he said "I did put your IHD in the kitchen, but it didn't seem to get a connection....so I moved it to the room right next to the smart meter". The smart meter is in a box outside, and the IHD is about 2 metres away from it....and it gets 2 "bars" of signal. I move it 3 metres away...and it says "lost connection".

    So, I call EON, and after a bit of a run around and escalation, a manager says "Oh, known issue in your area, you have a poor signal". I debated/argued and tried to get my point across, that the IHD-to-Smartmeter comms has NOTHING to do with "area" signal. I fully understand that the smartmeter to supplier, is over a mobile-data type network....and they were receiving data from my meter. There was then some ridiculous comparison to my phone connecting my wifi router, which I countered by saying "you'd be happy then if you had to sit 2m from your router to get wifi?". I asked to speak to someone technical and they said I was at the highest place, and if I wanted to take it further to contact the ombudsman !! Wow
    So, I call Chameleon, was told that they cannot really help, and that my comms can really only be with EON as they supplied it. However, she was super helpful and did however say, that my understanding of Zigbee comms (IHD-Mater comms) was correct, and likely to be an issue with the meter or (less likely) the IHD. Has anyone else come across this issue ? How can I move this along in EON, as this is their issue.
Page 1
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 6th Jan 20, 9:09 PM
    • 5,335 Posts
    • 3,550 Thanks
    Robin9
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 20, 9:09 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 20, 9:09 PM
    Don't bother - you'll be bored with the toy after a week.
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • shudman
    • By shudman 8th Jan 20, 12:06 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shudman
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 20, 12:06 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 20, 12:06 AM
    Great - thanks for the constructive reply.
    Whilst it may seem a gimmick to you, IHDs have been very helpful to me on at least two occasions. I am simply after some information as to whether people have seen this problem before, and if so how to fix it. I simply thought people were a little more helpful around here, rather than just give snide and unhelpful comments.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 8th Jan 20, 8:36 AM
    • 4,920 Posts
    • 3,220 Thanks
    matelodave
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 20, 8:36 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 20, 8:36 AM
    It would be interesting to see what other people's IHD range is.

    Mine is only around 3m from the meter so it sits on a windowsill in the dining room which backs onto the meter box.

    I'd prefer it in the kitchen but that's around 7m away with a couple of walls in between.

    I dont use it to actually monitor my consumption because I need to press buttons to get to the appropriate screens but it's useful to remotely read the meter so saving me having to go outside
    Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
    • RG2015
    • By RG2015 8th Jan 20, 8:43 AM
    • 1,779 Posts
    • 1,143 Thanks
    RG2015
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 20, 8:43 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 20, 8:43 AM
    I am with Eon and mine only drops from three bars to two bars at about 15 metres. I would recommend persisting with Eon to get a different IHD.
    • Mister G
    • By Mister G 8th Jan 20, 11:28 AM
    • 1,216 Posts
    • 735 Thanks
    Mister G
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 20, 11:28 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 20, 11:28 AM
    It would be interesting to see what other people's IHD range is.

    Mine is only around 3m from the meter so it sits on a windowsill in the dining room which backs onto the meter box.

    I'd prefer it in the kitchen but that's around 7m away with a couple of walls in between.

    I dont use it to actually monitor my consumption because I need to press buttons to get to the appropriate screens but it's useful to remotely read the meter so saving me having to go outside
    Originally posted by matelodave
    My Liberty 100 SMETS1 meter with the Pipit 500 display works over about 4m through two brick walls and shows 3 bars of signal strength on the display. It even works OK at the furthest point in the house, some 10m away (although only showing one bar).

    Like you, I find it far more convenient than going outside in the cold and wet!
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 20, 12:42 PM
    E.ON Smart Meter In Home Display
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 20, 12:42 PM
    Having recently had a SMETS2 smart meter fitted by EON, they give a nice little inhouse display (IHD) unit (made by Chameleon) to show your usage currently and historically. Splendid !
    So when the engineer left me he said "I did put your IHD in the kitchen, but it didn't seem to get a connection....so I moved it to the room right next to the smart meter". The smart meter is in a box outside, and the IHD is about 2 metres away from it....and it gets 2 "bars" of signal. I move it 3 metres away...and it says "lost connection".

    So, I call EON, and after a bit of a run around and escalation, a manager says "Oh, known issue in your area, you have a poor signal". I debated/argued and tried to get my point across, that the IHD-to-Smartmeter comms has NOTHING to do with "area" signal. I fully understand that the smartmeter to supplier, is over a mobile-data type network....and they were receiving data from my meter. There was then some ridiculous comparison to my phone connecting my wifi router, which I countered by saying "you'd be happy then if you had to sit 2m from your router to get wifi?". I asked to speak to someone technical and they said I was at the highest place, and if I wanted to take it further to contact the ombudsman !! Wow
    So, I call Chameleon, was told that they cannot really help, and that my comms can really only be with EON as they supplied it. However, she was super helpful and did however say, that my understanding of Zigbee comms (IHD-Mater comms) was correct, and likely to be an issue with the meter or (less likely) the IHD. Has anyone else come across this issue ? How can I move this along in EON, as this is their issue.
    Originally posted by shudman
    Hello shudman and welcome to the Forums.

    I'm sorry some of the information we've given hasn't been up to scratch. As you say, the In Home Display (IHD) receives information from the electricity meter. The issue with the lost connection shown on the IHD is not about the wider area network signal. This problem will be with the communication between the electricity meter and the IHD within your home.

    We do find issues similar to those you describe where the meter is situated away from the IHD. Each property is different and presents its own individual challenges. Any material between the two points trying to communicate can affect the signal quality. Wood, plasterboard and other building materials generally have a minimal impact on the signal. Thick stone and concrete can have a bigger impact. Metal has the biggest impact.

    I suspect something along these lines is affecting the connection between the electricity meter and the IHD at your home. This will be why our technician placed the IHD next to the meter. Totally understand this isn't always suitable and we're looking at ways to extend the reach of these communications.

    These problems are industry wide and we're working with outside specialists who are looking for solutions on behalf of all energy suppliers. This is an ongoing project and, as yet, I don't have a time frame.

    Sorry again the response you received when you called wasn't adequate shudman.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:00 PM
    E.ON Smart Meter In Home Display
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 20, 1:00 PM
    I am with Eon and mine only drops from three bars to two bars at about 15 metres. I would recommend persisting with Eon to get a different IHD.
    Originally posted by RG2015

    Hello RG2015 and I'm afraid a different IHD wouldn't sort this issue.

    As in my reply to shudman above, the difficulty is with the communications between the electricity meter and the IHD. A different IHD will face the same issues. We need to come up with a solution whereby we can extend the reach of these communications and overcome the obstacles that currently act as barriers. This is something we're working on.

    This problem only affects certain homes and it's good the reach you're seeing is much longer RG2015.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • shudman
    • By shudman 9th Jan 20, 3:44 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shudman
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 20, 3:44 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 20, 3:44 PM
    Malc...thankyou for your reply. Whilst I appreciate your comment about
    "Any material between the two points trying to communicate can affect the signal quality. Wood, plasterboard and other building materials generally have a minimal impact on the signal. Thick stone and concrete can have a bigger impact. Metal has the biggest impact."
    I thought I would do a test and I have a pair of photos (but cannot seem to upload here) of one 50cm just outside from the meter box, and one 3m away.....IN OPEN AIR.There are no walls, no metal (metre cab is plastic).
    This HAS to be a meter component failure (HAN) or IHD itself. How can I get these replaced ? Bear in mind I have not even had this installed a week !!
    Last edited by shudman; 10-01-2020 at 6:15 PM.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meter In Home Display
    Malc...thankyou for your reply. Whilst I appreciate your comment about I thought I would do a test and I have a pair of photos (but cannot seem to upload here) of one 50cm just outside from the meter box, and one 3m away.....IN OPEN AIR.There are no walls, no metal (metre cab is plastic).
    This HAS to be a meter component failure (HAN) or IHD itself. How can I get these replaced ? Bear in mind I have not even had this installed a week !!
    Originally posted by shudman

    Hello shudman and thank you for the additional information.

    I'd suggest referring this to our specialist smart meter team. Please contact us and ask to be put through to the Smart Centre. They're available from 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday and between 8am and 6pm Saturdays.

    I'm sorry there's nothing more I can add to my previous post.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Blot
    • By Blot 14th Jan 20, 5:43 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Blot
    Why do I increasingly get the conviction the whole SMETS programme is a dogs dinner.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 15th Jan 20, 1:06 AM
    • 3,032 Posts
    • 4,896 Thanks
    badmemory
    Why do I increasingly get the conviction the whole SMETS programme is a dogs dinner.
    Originally posted by Blot
    I suspect that there are some dogs that could have made a better job of it!


    It really is remarkable. A 10 minute meeting between all the energy companies a few years ago could have sorted the whole thing.
    • shudman
    • By shudman 21st Jan 20, 5:44 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shudman
    Well, having done what Malc suggested
    Please contact us and ask to be put through to the Smart Centre
    , they took onboard the issue, thankfully with some common sense, and got an engineer out....and low and behold, there WAS a problem.
    Replacing the meter(s) and the IHD has resolved the problem 100%

    For those that care....both meters (gas and electric) and the IHD have to be replaced at the same time, as they are all paired together - you cannot just replace one potential "faulty" item.

    For clarity:
    * The IHD communicates to the smart meter directly, using zigbee (like your home wireless) - this is called the HAN (Home Area Network). The IHD should work up to 15 metres away from your smart meter (although if you have thick walls/radio absorbant materials between them, of course it will be shorter).
    * The smart meter communicates with your energy provider over the mobile network or as they call it WAN (Wide Area Network). This is area/cell signal dependant - so if you are in a poor mobile signal area, there is a possibility that they won't receive your data....but they will know this at install time.
    • Talldave
    • By Talldave 22nd Jan 20, 11:02 AM
    • 635 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    Talldave
    Not sure what you mean by "like your home wireless"?
    • Highland76
    • By Highland76 22nd Jan 20, 11:10 AM
    • 139 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    Highland76
    It would be interesting to see what other people's IHD range is.

    Mine is only around 3m from the meter so it sits on a windowsill in the dining room which backs onto the meter box.

    I'd prefer it in the kitchen but that's around 7m away with a couple of walls in between.

    I dont use it to actually monitor my consumption because I need to press buttons to get to the appropriate screens but it's useful to remotely read the meter so saving me having to go outside
    Originally posted by matelodave
    I was getting 2-3 bars on the IHD no matter where the IHD is in the home (4 bedroom, 2 floors), so no communication issues at all between the comms hub and the IHD. I suspect that is mainly down to having wafer thin walls internally. Having said that, the IHD is switched off and will probably remain that way forever lol
    • A Nice Englishman
    • By A Nice Englishman 22nd Jan 20, 11:12 AM
    • 2,207 Posts
    • 1,311 Thanks
    A Nice Englishman
    Not sure what you mean by "like your home wireless"?
    Originally posted by Talldave
    The same type of radio communication that smartphones, tablets, laptops etc use to access the Internet via a WiFi router.
    • Talldave
    • By Talldave 22nd Jan 20, 12:36 PM
    • 635 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    Talldave
    The same type of radio communication that smartphones, tablets, laptops etc use to access the Internet via a WiFi router.
    Originally posted by A Nice Englishman
    Which is exactly what ZigBee is not. It's a very low power, low bandwidth radio link that can only communicate a few metres and relies on mesh networking topology to get any further.
    • shudman
    • By shudman 22nd Jan 20, 4:29 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shudman
    @Talldave - point taken about zigbee being low power, low bandwidth. I used the word "like", with the intent of really meaning this is a wireless network local to the smart meter, used by the IHD. That is all.
    E.ON's help centre we saying that my "low signal" issue was because the IHD was not getting a good mobile/2G/3G GPRS signal......which is utter rubbish. HAN vs WAN
    • Talldave
    • By Talldave 22nd Jan 20, 4:40 PM
    • 635 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    Talldave
    @Talldave - point taken about zigbee being low power, low bandwidth. I used the word "like", with the intent of really meaning this is a wireless network local to the smart meter, used by the IHD. That is all.
    E.ON's help centre we saying that my "low signal" issue was because the IHD was not getting a good mobile/2G/3G GPRS signal......which is utter rubbish. HAN vs WAN
    Originally posted by shudman
    Understood. I wonder if smart meter b*****it from call centre operators is infectious? Operator 1 overhears operator 2 giving duff information, thinks it sounds impressive and copies it, whilst adding their own flavour of made up waffle. Or is this rubbish written in their scripts? Or is the IHD actually getting a WAN signal strength to display from the electricity meter?

    I was also under the possible misunderstanding that half the country uses a dedicated network for WAN and not GSM? Why organise a single shambles when two will complicate things further?!

    My other guess is that gas meter to electric meter comms is Zigbee too?
    • shudman
    • By shudman 22nd Jan 20, 5:12 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shudman
    Well, when the engineer came out to fix my issue (from Morrison's), I explained the HAN/WAN thing and he said he was not 100% sure. He then called his helpdesk...and I overheard the senior tech person say to "my" engineer "tell the customer he is wrong, this is about the mobile phone signal in his area....it will not improve until a mast is put up". So, even the engineer's tech escalation point are spreading useless tripe.
    Because I was insistent (and because I had talked to Chameleon, who make the IHD), the engineer called his boss and he said "just change the meters and the IHD". Ironically his boss came out to assist/inspect....and his understanding of HAN vs WAN was spot on.

    I am not sure how the meters talk together, but I suspect the are separately talking over the WAN (because not everyone has gas AND electric meter, plus when provisioning the gas meter....it took 15 mins for it to register @E.ON, whereas the electric meter registered within 5 mins). The "rescheming" makes sure at provision time that the electric meter comms with the IHD, and the separately the gas meter to the IHD...that is why they all had to be replaced at once.
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